I like 3E, but I miss...

[Michael Morris]

"As much as I like 3E, when thinking back to 1st or 2nd edition AD&D, I have to admit that I miss _____________."

Networlds and netprojects. d20, for all the great things it brought, killed online community projects because it siphoned off all the great writers to work for all the publishing companies that sprung up. Not that this isn't a bad thing, but it is something I miss.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Networlds and netprojects. d20, for all the great things it brought, killed online community projects because it siphoned off all the great writers to work for all the publishing companies that sprung up. Not that this isn't a bad thing, but it is something I miss.

Too true, but those net worlds and net projects sure made good resumes for would-be freelancers wanting to work for the up and coming publishers.

Of course my greatest fear is that every fan of D20 products will realize how easy this stuff is to produce, join a company, and start producing it rather than buying it, thus killing the market from within. ...Oh wait, I guess that is what happened.

 

[Alzrius]

...the holisticity of AD&D 2E.

Back in the previous edition, the campaign worlds were all interconnected, and this led to what I felt was a very rich amount of diversification through the various campaign models cross-pollinating.

Khelben Arunsun the Younger lives in Greyhawk. A section of Sigil is named New Tyr by gladiators from Athas. Baba Yaga has a living wall she got from Ravenloft. Teldin Moore visited Astinus of Palanthas to learn more about spelljamming. An awnsheigh named The Blowfish lives on Gehenna. All these things added great color to the multiverse TSR developed because it reinforced the fact that the characters lived in a huge existence that was not composed of isolated little worlds.

I found it highly ironic that when WotC stepped in, they revolutionized the mechanics of the game to a wonderful new level, and simultaneously destroyed this particular storytelling aspect that I loved. I feel, contrary to what is now the popular opinion, that AD&D 2E had not gotten to the point where you needed a large number of books to play the game due to them all referencing each other. Even in world-specific campaigns that just didn't ring true to me. (Although it was true that TSR was killing themselves by dividing their own market with different supported worlds simultaneously.)

On that note, I feel WotC has gone too far in the other direction. It can be just as bad to go out of your way to make sure none of the books borrow from each other, also. Just look at the mess that happens when you compare Deities & Demigods with the Epic Level Handbook. And I won't even go into the whole part of them giving the Realms some new cosmology based on a tree, just so you wouldn't feel any pressure to buy Manual of the Planes.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Funny no one mentioned... I miss that Prot from Evil 10' aura that Paladins had ! I thought it was just awesome idea. (It basically gave -1 to attacks for any evil in the area).

I could vizualise a paladin covered up in civilian clothes entering a city... and then suddenly that evil creature he is seeking and approaching a moment before just getting that tingling sensation... that feeling that something supernatural and holy had just gotten close... very close.

This made Paladins IMHO true beacons of their gods... for they couldn't even disguise themselves. (At least to evil doers.)

 

[Ycore Rixle]

Another vote here for level titles, neutral assassins, rangers with magic-user spells, effective multiclassing spellcasters, and a DMG that included a treasure trove of tables, miscellaneous info, and reading recommendations.

My biggest vote goes for the idea of balance, however. (/rant on) In 1e, Gary Gygax didn't believe in the idea of balance as we know it today. He said right in the PHB that the magic-user and the monk may be the most devastating classes at higher levels. I miss having unbalanced character classes. The weak-at-low-levels, strong-at-high-levels magic-user and the reverse-designed fighter made a lot of sense to me. I don't think it's possible to perfectly balance every character class at every level, and I think it's up to the campaign and the DM to make sure that the game is fun for everyone. If someone doesn't want to play a class because it's not 'powerful' enough, then the DM should adjust his campaign accordingly. It's all about the players. Having unbalanced classes gave them more options. They could choose, by their class, to play in a low-powered or high-powered campaign - as long ast he DM adequately adjust the campaign to keep the game fun for the players. Balance as we know it today is a misguided port to D&D from computer games. In computer games, the computer can't adjust the campaign world on-the-fly to the choices of the player, so in a computer game, the designers have to make sure that all the class choices are equally fun and balanced to play. But in a pen-and-paper world, the DM can adjust the game for each individual character, even in a group - and she should. Given that DM adjustment, the inclusion of unbalanced classes gives players more options. Namely, they can choose to play in a high-powered or low-powered game by their choices.(/rant off)

Still, there are many more things that I don't miss.

 

[Walter_J]

I miss the simplicity of 1E and D&D. Roll your stats, pick a race, class, equipment and spells and your character is ready to go. Same with monsters, NPC's and overall game play. I don't at all miss the grappling rules from the 1E DMG.

The only thing about 2E I miss is the time and money we wasted on a game that didn't work for us.

 

[Junkheap]

God this thread makes me miss the pre 3e editions so much...

My list

Clerical individuality....speciality priest were all different. You were always on your toes with not knowling what abilities the cleric had.

Planescape...my god i miss this campaign

AlQuadim....another campaign i miss dearly

The mysteriousness of previous editions.....everything was made up by your imagination, it didn't have to make sense, it was all magical, and everyone was fine with it. In 3e it HAS to make sense or it isn't possible. Too many rules laywers.

Iniative every round.

Magical items. Mysterious and amazing. You couldn't create, or was very hard to. Sure you had a ton of money later on in your career with nothing to spend it on, but heros should.

Adventures...epic high level adventures. Or campaign adventure like dead gods, modron march, al quadim box sets, the conjunction stuff from ravenloft. I just find going over 18lvl in 3e just stupid.

3e to me feels more like a video game than a gritty mysterious wonder that 2e was.

The various supported worlds.

The monster manuals, more specifically 1 page 1 monster.

I still love 3e, but i find i had much more fun playing 2e. We have already quit 3e a couple of times!!! Maybe its cuz i grew up with 2e.

 

[Ferret]

All that I know of 2ed is from the baldurs gate system but......


As much as I like 3E, when thinking back to 1st or 2nd edition AD&D, I have to admit that I miss High level thieves and bouncing lighning round a room. I miss Flat bonus' on MR for drow (Viconia) and Clerical spheres

 

[Mercule]

...the holisticity of AD&D 2E.

Back in the previous edition, the campaign worlds were all interconnected, and this led to what I felt was a very rich amount of diversification through the various campaign models cross-pollinating.

Now, see, this is one of the things that I decidedly don't miss from 2E and is one of the reasons why the game lost its shine, IMHO. I hate having FR in Greyhawk and vice versa (feel free to interchange Darksun, Dragonlance, and Ravenloft for either of the above). I still cannot understand the lure of Planescape on any level. And Spelljammer was simply an abomination.

Really, I thought the whole interlinking of the worlds served more to homogenize everything than diversify.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I miss being able to describe combat with the rogue rolling back out of the room, dodging the axe-master's attacks, and ducking under a table, only to have it split in half by a blow, and kicked away.

If I tried that now, I'd get screams of protest that the player didn't choose to move his character. Can someone have theatrical retreats after making a full attack option? Does it provoke an AOO if he's moved past an enemy's threat range? What's the cover granted by the table? How much damage gets past it's harndess? Between the grid and all these useful, well thought out rules, my DMing style is getting cramped.

Other things:
Another vote for clerics having limited access to different domains.
2E bards having the ability to use any weapon.
Half an hour to do the minimalist 3D6 rolled 6 times, pick class, race and equipment to start a new game. Where are my optional rules for a faster game?
edit: My players describing things to me in actions, instead of lifting up their miniature, counting out a movement path, putting their figure down, and saying "That one."