I Love Gaming but I Hate Gamers!

[Geron Raveneye]

Eh, adults are just as immature as kids, it just shows in different ways. Watch an episode of Cops and tell me adults are more mature than children

Seriously, cops feel the need to babysit civilians and act as our parents (which really annoys me because that shouldn't be their job but they are forced to do that). They do that because people are too immature to deal with situations themselves and they need officers to hold their hand.

In all of the different jobs I've worked at, adults act petty and immature about things. Adults will talk about people behind their backs. Adults will throw tantrums when they don't get their way. We had a guy quit last week who, right before he left, deleted all of his files from his computer for revenge over his gripes with the company. Roadrage isn't a form of immaturity? I lost count of how many times I've seen the finger aimed at me or someone else, or heard nasty comments followed by a horn honking.

I chuckle every time I hear someone claim that adults are more mature than children. I used to think they were when I was a child. The only difference is that adults are able to hide their immaturity better than kids and pretend they are more mature. I've DM'ed for a 14 & 16 y/o who were more mature at the table than all of the adults with us. I think peoples excuse about gamer ages has more to do with relating with a person than it does maturity & age.

Simple lesson life teaches us: Growing up doesn't change anything, only the sandlots become bigger.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Its a shame that you're having trouble finding a group that you are comfortable with, but maybe you can salvage the situation... You said that you've gamed with many groups, and that all of the groups have had the same (or similar) problems with rude and uncooperative behavior. But you didn't say if there were other people in those groups that were good folks.

Maybe you could try to put together your own group, taking select members from those other groups that did not exhibit those qualities that you found offensive or detrimental to the gaming experience. If only Jack from group A was a complete jerk, but Fred and Bob were okay, and Henry from group B was okay, maybe you could invite Fred, Bob, and Henry to a game and see how that works out.

Be proactive, try to find or put together the group that you want to play with, rather than just joining already established groups where you have to put up with people and behaviors that you find inappropriate.

You might also want to instate some few table rules for how folks should behave when they are at the gaming table. There are several threads about that, here on the boards, as well. Good luck.

Later
silver

 

[Dragonbait]

Seems like I post this link at least once a month.
It just applies to so many social situations involving geeks.
Read it. It has cleared up so many things for me.

Repeated for truth.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I do not agree with the statement: Gamers are somehow socially backwards, or less inclined to behave well, or less cooperative, or all the rest of that line of thinking, than the rest of people in society.
I do not agree with that.

What I believe is that the common problems of ordinary people are magnified in gaming, because gaming requires intensive interpersonal communication on a freeform basis.
I'd be willing to bet that if you tried to deal with any group in our society on an intensive freeform interpersonal basis, you'd find the same level of trouble.

In short, Gamers are just as good and bad as everyone else.

My opinion.

Edena_of_Neith

 

[fusangite]

In short, Gamers are just as good and bad as everyone else.

Surely you will agree that certain traits are over-represented amongst gamers that will lead to particular social configurations. For instance, a group that massively over-represents males is likely to exhibit different traits that one which is female-dominated or gender-balanced. If we can accept, as I am sure we all can, that gamers over-represent males, why can't we, as a group over-represent other groups in society?

 

[fusangite]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[fusangite]

Eh, adults are just as immature as kids, it just shows in different ways. Watch an episode of Cops and tell me adults are more mature than children

This is totally logically fallacious. Of course some adults are less mature than some children. It is also true that certain severely mentally challenged humans are less intelligent than chimps. But it cannot therefore be reasoned that chimps, as a whole, are smarter than humans.

What does "mature" mean? It means exhibiting traits associated with age. Simply by using the dictionary, it is impossible to conclude that adults are not more mature than children. I know this is ENWorld, where all generalizations are wrong, but for goodness sake, are you really telling me you would have just as good a time gaming with 10 year olds as you would with your group!?

I chuckle every time I hear someone claim that adults are more mature than children. I used to think they were when I was a child. The only difference is that adults are able to hide their immaturity better than kids and pretend they are more mature.

That's what maturity is: adapting to society's rules so that one's flaws don't inconvenience others quite so much. If you think that's a valueless act, walk around for the week telling everyone what you really think, unmediated by social convention.

Gamers, as a whole, are less mature than society at large. Our ranks over-represent people who lack either an inherent talent or an emotional inclination towards conforming to the rules that glue society together. Maturity isn't about the pristine nature of your soul; it is about curbing your natural inclinations in order to refrain from violating standards of social conduct.

I've DM'ed for a 14 & 16 y/o who were more mature at the table than all of the adults with us. I think peoples excuse about gamer ages has more to do with relating with a person than it does maturity & age.

Acting mature is a combination of inherent talent and learned skill. This is like saying that literacy and numeracy have nothing to do with age. Just because there isn't a 1:1 correspondence at the individual level doesn't mean there isn't a clear direct variation relationship statistically.

 

[Express]

Gruff-

I dont know how old you are, or if its been mentioned in the thread. I know you alluded to having "jock" friends from high school, etc. That to me seems a bit telling. "Gamers" can be jocks too, or former jocks. Gamers in fact, especially as they get older, could be almost anyone.

Anyway, I would obviously ditch the group. If you arent having fun its not worth it. Gamers may be scarce in your area, but that doesnt mean you have to put up with the dregs of our cultural subgroup to do what you like.

Id advise you to look for people more like yourself. I dont mean that in racial, economic, or political terms, but in gaming and at the table philosophy. Gamers come in many shapes and sizes- they cant be easily classified. For every stable individual who likes gaming for what it is, you meet an antisocial, too-into-the-game, socially inconsiderate person that only perpetrates the geek/gamer stereotype.

Just keep looking. There are alot on online tools and sites. From the gamer meetup site to Wizards and even (gasp) rpg.net you may get lucky.

Good Luck

 

[rounser]

Maturity is not genetic, it's a learned behavior.

I think that whether you believe that or not depends on what books you've read, and what assumptions you buy into.

I understand that there's been enough research with identical twins (i.e. same genes, there's your control) to suggest that there is a large degree of predisposition. That, and the emotional centre of your brain is a very poor listener - and there are many more connections "from" it rather than "to" it, and it's used to ignoring reason.

I think there's some truth to what you're saying insofar that even if you're predisposed towards immature characteristics such as a short temper, defensiveness, paranoia, schadenfreude or whatever, there are workarounds that you can find that work for yourself...but it's not as easy to "be mature" as if you didn't have these emotional characteristics in the first place, and a lot of people never manage it. Perhaps it's like the involuntary salivation you might perform when you smell food - it's difficult to unlearn that, just as it might be difficult to educate away a stimulus like someone being rude triggering an automatic rise in blood pressure in some people.

In short, I think that you have some brain physiology which isn't the same as everyone else in the same way that your face is different to that of everyone else, and that though the brain is very adaptable in some areas, there is a limit to that adaptability in others.

In a sense, this speculation of mine about the human mind is liberating - that there is an essential "you-ness" that the big bad world cannot influence very much, short of brain damage. (Whether others begin banging their heads against a wall because of it is beside the point).

I do not agree with the statement: Gamers are somehow socially backwards, or less inclined to behave well, or less cooperative, or all the rest of that line of thinking, than the rest of people in society.

I'm not so sure of that. My pet theory is that male geeks usually lie somewhere on the autism through aspergers syndrome continuum (it's not a black and white thing apparently; you can just have a touch of it). Apparently Silicon Valley was producing a lot of kids with aspergers due to geeks marrying geeks.

 

[Chimera]

Flatly state that in your house, you won't allow certain behaviors. That's what I did, and we all get along.

Quoted and seconded.

Up until last week, I was playing in three different groups. Had to drop one of them due to my work schedule changing. In the last five years, I'm played with five other groups. Due to my experiences with some of them, I've had the above quoted thought burned into my brain against the day when I decide to recruit a new group. Doing so upfront would certainly have eliminated most of the unpleasant bits I've experienced in the eight different groups I've played with in these five years.

In short, don't come to my house if you're filthy and/or smelly; don't disrespect my house or my furniture; don't leave your garbage strewn around; don't disrespect or damage other players personal property; don't insult or fight with other players or the GM; don't be an ass; don't be a loud, obnoxious boor; don't fight the game premise. DO pay attention; bring your own food and drink; your own game materials. If you can't be nice, at least be civil.

Or take it somewhere else.