Knight Otu
First Post
*Bumps his head on thread*
Ouch, why is it hanging so low?
Ouch, why is it hanging so low?
I miss Melkor (3rd Gnome IR) :)
- Thread starter Zelda Themelin
- Start date
Serpenteye
First Post
Have you decided on any rules yet? We should probably limit the rate of mechanical PL- and tech- increase, perhaps introduce a few new types of PL to create more accuracy.
Random musings and recommendations.
BPL: Base Power Level: The sum of your power, is divided into your other kinds of PL. It increases based on your PPL and you can distribute the increase between your other kinds of PL (except PPL).
PPL: Productive Power Level: Based on the population and tech-level of the province. It determines the rate of increase of your BPL.
MiPL: Military Power Level: Determines the size and power of your armies and the willingness and ability of your people to spontaneously rise against an invader,(when assigned to civilians its cost is halved but you will likely suffer a lot of civilian casualties which will decrease your PPL.)
The MiPL of a unit should also decrease continuously to reflect natural deaths and desertions, it should increase when a unit becomes more experienced.
MaPL: Magical Power Level: Determines the power of your spellcasters in a fair fight, and also is the basis for your magical research. Since spellcasters are hard to train (and rarely fight fairly) this PL is twize as expensive in BPL as the other PLs. The MaPL of a unit should also decrease continuously to reflect natural deaths and desertions, it should increase when a unit becomes more experienced.
GPL: Gold Power Level: BPL can also be converted to gold, which can be given or traded with allies, and then be converted back. I don't think we should bother with inflation, but make GPL the best way to hoard BPL in the long term.
TPL: Tech Power Level: Determines the rate technology (and thereby PPL) increases. Tech should probably include social improvements such as education and religious propaganda networks.
Technology does tend to spread on its own, though, and any tech that's used by civillians or by your armies in a war is almost certain to spread to your neigbours (if they recognize its value, and since this is an IR they will). Though they may not necessarily have the wealth and infrastructure to use it, (another complication... how would one solve this?).
Population is a factor in the PPL and the level of the peoples education and their loyalty and stability should also factor into the PPL.
After a certain point a decrease in PPL should result in a decrease in BPL, (civilizations do fall as easily as rise after all and most of them fell mostly due to internal causes). Perhaps it could be ruled that a province needs a certain amount of production to maintain itself (food etc.), and if it doesn't get that the people will become restless and the BPL of the province will fall. It is only the surplus that results in growth, and economies grew slowly before the industrial revolution. (Even when the industrial revolution was well underway the average GNP-increase was a modest 1-2 percent per year in the UK, since most of the economy wasn't industrial.) One would need to do some calculating to determine the best break-off point.
Random musings and recommendations.
BPL: Base Power Level: The sum of your power, is divided into your other kinds of PL. It increases based on your PPL and you can distribute the increase between your other kinds of PL (except PPL).
PPL: Productive Power Level: Based on the population and tech-level of the province. It determines the rate of increase of your BPL.
MiPL: Military Power Level: Determines the size and power of your armies and the willingness and ability of your people to spontaneously rise against an invader,(when assigned to civilians its cost is halved but you will likely suffer a lot of civilian casualties which will decrease your PPL.)
The MiPL of a unit should also decrease continuously to reflect natural deaths and desertions, it should increase when a unit becomes more experienced.
MaPL: Magical Power Level: Determines the power of your spellcasters in a fair fight, and also is the basis for your magical research. Since spellcasters are hard to train (and rarely fight fairly) this PL is twize as expensive in BPL as the other PLs. The MaPL of a unit should also decrease continuously to reflect natural deaths and desertions, it should increase when a unit becomes more experienced.
GPL: Gold Power Level: BPL can also be converted to gold, which can be given or traded with allies, and then be converted back. I don't think we should bother with inflation, but make GPL the best way to hoard BPL in the long term.
TPL: Tech Power Level: Determines the rate technology (and thereby PPL) increases. Tech should probably include social improvements such as education and religious propaganda networks.
Technology does tend to spread on its own, though, and any tech that's used by civillians or by your armies in a war is almost certain to spread to your neigbours (if they recognize its value, and since this is an IR they will). Though they may not necessarily have the wealth and infrastructure to use it, (another complication... how would one solve this?).
Population is a factor in the PPL and the level of the peoples education and their loyalty and stability should also factor into the PPL.
After a certain point a decrease in PPL should result in a decrease in BPL, (civilizations do fall as easily as rise after all and most of them fell mostly due to internal causes). Perhaps it could be ruled that a province needs a certain amount of production to maintain itself (food etc.), and if it doesn't get that the people will become restless and the BPL of the province will fall. It is only the surplus that results in growth, and economies grew slowly before the industrial revolution. (Even when the industrial revolution was well underway the average GNP-increase was a modest 1-2 percent per year in the UK, since most of the economy wasn't industrial.) One would need to do some calculating to determine the best break-off point.
Last edited:
William Ronald
Explorer
Interesting ideas, Serpenteye. I think working on fair and balanced rules will be a challenge. I think that Edena's policy of limiting players to a certain initial amount of power levels was a good one that helped make the 3rd IR more enjoyable.
Kalanyr: I will try to get to the IR chat room soon.
Kalanyr: I will try to get to the IR chat room soon.
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
Hello there
Hello there, everyone.
I just got back from a long and difficult trip, and have only recently learned of this thread. But here I am, and here it is. I will read all of it, and then have a ton of replies and comments, as usual.
I think the idea of an IR Reunion is great. I am glad this thread was started. I haven't read it yet, but I hope it has been the kind of congenial and pleasant thread a reunion should be.
You guys and girls are great, you know that? My IR friends I remember, and remember very well. You made it worth all the time and effort. I probably would have left ENWorld but for you, because my interest in gaming was fading (but you brought the fun back.)
I consider you all my friends. To all of you, I give my greetings, and my continued friendship. I would return the joy to you, that you gave me.
Edena_of_Neith
Hello there, everyone.
I just got back from a long and difficult trip, and have only recently learned of this thread. But here I am, and here it is. I will read all of it, and then have a ton of replies and comments, as usual.
I think the idea of an IR Reunion is great. I am glad this thread was started. I haven't read it yet, but I hope it has been the kind of congenial and pleasant thread a reunion should be.
You guys and girls are great, you know that? My IR friends I remember, and remember very well. You made it worth all the time and effort. I probably would have left ENWorld but for you, because my interest in gaming was fading (but you brought the fun back.)
I consider you all my friends. To all of you, I give my greetings, and my continued friendship. I would return the joy to you, that you gave me.
Edena_of_Neith
William Ronald
Explorer
Glad to have you here, Edena!!! You have been missed here at EN World.
Tak your time in reading the thread, and rest up from your trip. You might want to check some of the recently released PDFs and other products here at EN World and mentioned in the reviews section. It seems that magic and technology working together, or at least magic working like technology, is not such a strange concept anymore. (To me, having read about different cultural practices in the real world, the point of magical rituals was to affect some sort of change. So, in a sense, magic in D&D already served one of the same goals that technology does in the real world: getting the job done!)
Tak your time in reading the thread, and rest up from your trip. You might want to check some of the recently released PDFs and other products here at EN World and mentioned in the reviews section. It seems that magic and technology working together, or at least magic working like technology, is not such a strange concept anymore. (To me, having read about different cultural practices in the real world, the point of magical rituals was to affect some sort of change. So, in a sense, magic in D&D already served one of the same goals that technology does in the real world: getting the job done!)
Knight Otu
First Post
Welcome back, Edena!
Serpenteye, you're making my head hurt.
Somewhat. But it looks good, maybe a bit complex.
Serpenteye, you're making my head hurt.
Somewhat. But it looks good, maybe a bit complex.
Lichtenhart
First Post
I stick to my opinion: the more freeform it'll be, the better. But for everything that actually needs a form, SE's suggestions are great.
And I'm immensely happy to see you back, Terry. Hope to hear more from you soon.
And I'm immensely happy to see you back, Terry. Hope to hear more from you soon.
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
From Edena_of_Neith
Hey there. Thanks for the warm welcome back.
I am having a LOT of trouble with this new version of Netscape Navigator, and MIE does not work at all.
I read through page one, and I began one of my giant mass reply posts. I spent an entire hour on it, responding to each post. Then, near the end, it froze my computer, and I lost all my work.
I cannot issue the kind of mass reply that you'all have come to see as a trademark of mine. Not while I'm stuck with this system.
I'm trapped down here at the bottom of page 9, and I can't get out.
I wish to say hi to Zelda, and greetings to Finland. How are you doing? (And Zelda, I would not say yours was a weak, neutral, power. Two scheming Union of Oerth players are lucky you didn't walk in their back door and squash them.)
I want to say hi to Venus, thanks for his letter, and greetings to the Netherlands. How are you doing?
The same to 'o Skoteinos. How are you doing?
Greetings to you, Dagger. How are you doing?
William, it goes without saying: Hey there, and merry meetings!
Lichtenhart, nice to see you again! How are ya?
Knight Otu: Hey there. How are ya? (What power did you play, by the way? I'm getting Alzheimer's ... I'm losing my memory!) Greetings to Germany!
Festy Dog, are you there? (I love that SN, but I'd hate to run into a festy dog alone in the countryside!)
Forgotten One, where are you?
Melkor, where are you?
Creamsteak ... congrats on becoming a moderator. What is it like, being an ENWorld Moderator? And, how are you?
Darkness, how are you doing? And greetings to Austria.
Kalanyr, hey there! Greetings to Australia. Greetings to Oz (why do they call it Oz? Is it derived from Frank Baum's Oz. If Australia is THAT nice, then everyone in the world will be moving to Australia!)
Forrester, are you still around?
Darwin of Mind, where'd you go?
Gez, are you around?
Maudlin, the MAPMAKER (and EVERYONE should remember his beautiful maps) where did you go? I never saw you again after Turn 5.
Darkness, hey there. Greetings to Germany. How are you doing? Again, I'm sorry the IR didn't turn out as well as it should have. I got bogged down by all the happenings. I couldn't react fast enough.
Anabstercorian, where is my favorite illithid? (William, reason is useless against illithid, since they consider human beings below reason. Hehe.)
Balor, are you still with us?
John Brown, creator of Dark Byzantium, hey there. I hope you are there. I'm sorry things didn't work out. Perhaps in a 4th IR, they would!
Hey there, Sollir. Are you there? Greetings to the player who worked with Creamsteak to hold off two very scheming players of the Union of Oerth!
Now I know I've missed a whole lot of people. I'm just trying to address those on page one, which I've read! Bear with me here, guys and girls. I'm just Edena!
Someone post a list. Of ALL our players. So I can greet you all. So I don't have the stupid, paltry excuse of failed memory to have to fall back on! I want to say hi to everyone again!
I'm still on page one of this thread.
I think Melkor was a blast, and wish to say so. And, heh, he almost blasted ALL of you into entropy! The taraakians barely saved you. Blame Forsaken One, who held out on you!
(Long live the Swarm! Cheers, Forsaken One )
I hope Melkor is still with us. I really do. Hey there, Melkor. If you read this, reply to an old friend. And remember, you DID blow up all those Crystal Spheres ... it's just the taraakians recreated them as the Demiplane of Hope, and transferred the spirits of the living to that Demiplane, an instant before you blew up everything. Blame Forsaken One, who cooperated with the taraakians at the last instant!
Hey there. Thanks for the warm welcome back.
I am having a LOT of trouble with this new version of Netscape Navigator, and MIE does not work at all.
I read through page one, and I began one of my giant mass reply posts. I spent an entire hour on it, responding to each post. Then, near the end, it froze my computer, and I lost all my work.
I cannot issue the kind of mass reply that you'all have come to see as a trademark of mine. Not while I'm stuck with this system.
I'm trapped down here at the bottom of page 9, and I can't get out.
I wish to say hi to Zelda, and greetings to Finland. How are you doing? (And Zelda, I would not say yours was a weak, neutral, power. Two scheming Union of Oerth players are lucky you didn't walk in their back door and squash them.)
I want to say hi to Venus, thanks for his letter, and greetings to the Netherlands. How are you doing?
The same to 'o Skoteinos. How are you doing?
Greetings to you, Dagger. How are you doing?
William, it goes without saying: Hey there, and merry meetings!
Lichtenhart, nice to see you again! How are ya?
Knight Otu: Hey there. How are ya? (What power did you play, by the way? I'm getting Alzheimer's ... I'm losing my memory!) Greetings to Germany!
Festy Dog, are you there? (I love that SN, but I'd hate to run into a festy dog alone in the countryside!)
Forgotten One, where are you?
Melkor, where are you?
Creamsteak ... congrats on becoming a moderator. What is it like, being an ENWorld Moderator? And, how are you?
Darkness, how are you doing? And greetings to Austria.
Kalanyr, hey there! Greetings to Australia. Greetings to Oz (why do they call it Oz? Is it derived from Frank Baum's Oz. If Australia is THAT nice, then everyone in the world will be moving to Australia!)
Forrester, are you still around?
Darwin of Mind, where'd you go?
Gez, are you around?
Maudlin, the MAPMAKER (and EVERYONE should remember his beautiful maps) where did you go? I never saw you again after Turn 5.
Darkness, hey there. Greetings to Germany. How are you doing? Again, I'm sorry the IR didn't turn out as well as it should have. I got bogged down by all the happenings. I couldn't react fast enough.
Anabstercorian, where is my favorite illithid? (William, reason is useless against illithid, since they consider human beings below reason. Hehe.)
Balor, are you still with us?
John Brown, creator of Dark Byzantium, hey there. I hope you are there. I'm sorry things didn't work out. Perhaps in a 4th IR, they would!
Hey there, Sollir. Are you there? Greetings to the player who worked with Creamsteak to hold off two very scheming players of the Union of Oerth!
Now I know I've missed a whole lot of people. I'm just trying to address those on page one, which I've read! Bear with me here, guys and girls. I'm just Edena!
Someone post a list. Of ALL our players. So I can greet you all. So I don't have the stupid, paltry excuse of failed memory to have to fall back on! I want to say hi to everyone again!
I'm still on page one of this thread.
I think Melkor was a blast, and wish to say so. And, heh, he almost blasted ALL of you into entropy! The taraakians barely saved you. Blame Forsaken One, who held out on you!
(Long live the Swarm! Cheers, Forsaken One )I hope Melkor is still with us. I really do. Hey there, Melkor. If you read this, reply to an old friend. And remember, you DID blow up all those Crystal Spheres ... it's just the taraakians recreated them as the Demiplane of Hope, and transferred the spirits of the living to that Demiplane, an instant before you blew up everything. Blame Forsaken One, who cooperated with the taraakians at the last instant!
Knight Otu
First Post
No need to worry, Edena. I actually entered the picture as a active player with the Rokugan IR. Before that, I was watching.
Before that, I was watching.
Kalanyr
Explorer
Hi to all. And hi to you Edena, glad to see you I am, the Oz thing is because we abbreviate Australia as AUS and it sounds like Oz.
Festy and I have worked out some preliminary rules which are below
The Theory: D10s are fun.
The Detail: In general player vs player conflict will be resolved by us rolling a d10 for each player the highest roll wins. However it gets a bit more complex, since Festy and I will award bonuses for strategy and such. If your bonus reaches +10 you drop to a +5 bonus and roll an extra d10, 10s are open ended (that is we keep rolling and add until we get a not 10, this means that an underdog might pull off a surprising victory). To simplify things each country will have 3 ratings that serve as a base for most things Military, Diplomacy and Espionage, everyone will start with a net sum of 0 although you can start with up to a -2 penalty in 2 of them for a maximum of +4 to one. To these bases Festy and I will be awarded penalties and bonuses at our discretion for cool plans and such, we will also adjust the bases after each turn based on your actions that turn.
Other meandering thoughts: If you get severely beaten ie by 3 or more points your score in the appropriate field will be reduced by -1/3 points you were beaten by. This is to discourage underdogs from continuously attacking big powers and relying on luck to win.
Technology and Magical advancement will allow more interesting plans for circumstance bonuses and will also increase your base scores. This system is fairly freeform but does have some static points to encourage canny resource use.
Festy and I have worked out some preliminary rules which are below
The Theory: D10s are fun.
The Detail: In general player vs player conflict will be resolved by us rolling a d10 for each player the highest roll wins. However it gets a bit more complex, since Festy and I will award bonuses for strategy and such. If your bonus reaches +10 you drop to a +5 bonus and roll an extra d10, 10s are open ended (that is we keep rolling and add until we get a not 10, this means that an underdog might pull off a surprising victory). To simplify things each country will have 3 ratings that serve as a base for most things Military, Diplomacy and Espionage, everyone will start with a net sum of 0 although you can start with up to a -2 penalty in 2 of them for a maximum of +4 to one. To these bases Festy and I will be awarded penalties and bonuses at our discretion for cool plans and such, we will also adjust the bases after each turn based on your actions that turn.
Other meandering thoughts: If you get severely beaten ie by 3 or more points your score in the appropriate field will be reduced by -1/3 points you were beaten by. This is to discourage underdogs from continuously attacking big powers and relying on luck to win.
Technology and Magical advancement will allow more interesting plans for circumstance bonuses and will also increase your base scores. This system is fairly freeform but does have some static points to encourage canny resource use.
