D&D 5E I need some help with a few basic rules clarifications

[Jawsofhana]

HI there! Our group is fairly inexperienced. And we don't have the best in-depth knowledge of how things should work. I was hoping someone could clear up a few things?

I wanted a type of strong melee brawler type of character. But tend to dislike monks.

Anyway, I decided to go for a Battle Master with the Tavern Brawler, and the Grappler feat.
Then multi-classed into assassin, in order to sneak up on people, and tell them to "Sleep".

But I guess Unarmed do not count as finesse weapons? Our dm has no issue with allowing it, but I want to know the actual rules, for future accounts.

He has 20 strength, and 16 dex. In order to sneak attack, you need to use finesse weapons, right? Do I have to use the dex modifier to hit?

He also has two weapon fighting, but does each fist count as a weapon, or do I need a dagger in the off hand? In order to use this feat, for three attacks? And can I give the offhand attack away, with the battlemaster's Commander's Strike?

And no matter how many attacks you have, you only ever gain one sneak attack, correct?

 

[Rya.Reisender]

But I guess Unarmed do not count as finesse weapons?

Yes, an unarmed strike does not count as finesse weapon.

He has 20 strength, and 16 dex. In order to sneak attack, you need to use finesse weapons, right? Do I have to use the dex modifier to hit?

The attack must use a finesse or ranged weapon. It is not required to use your DEX modifier.

He also has two weapon fighting, but does each fist count as a weapon, or do I need a dagger in the off hand?

Unarmed Strike appears under simple melee weapons, but it does not have the light property that is required for Two-Weapon Fighting.

In order to use this feat, for three attacks?

Three attacks? You only get two from that feat. If you mean an additional grapple attack, that doesn't work as you only have one bonus action per round.

And can I give the offhand attack away, with the battlemaster's Commander's Strike?

That doesn't work either because Commander's Strike also costs a bonus action, you cannot use it when you use Tavern Brawler or Two-Weapon Fighting.

And no matter how many attacks you have, you only ever gain one sneak attack, correct?

One per turn. If something allows you to attack during an enemy's turn, you can use it again.

 

[DEFCON 1]

This may or may not be useful to you depending on whether or not your DM allows 3rd Party products or you have interest in non-WotC options... but the Sterling Vermin Adventuring Co. has produced a really good brawler class on the DM's Guild called The Pugilist. It basically takes the monk's foundation and re-works it into a Strength-based unarmed fighting class, with 6 different subclass Fight Clubs.

You can find the free Preview of the class on DMs Guild HERE which includes the base class and 2 subclasses I believe. Then, if you like it and want the full class, it costs $2.50 and can be found HERE.

I've found Benjamin Huffman of Sterling Vermin to produce a lot of good quality 3rd Party material, and his stuff goes through many, many rounds of playtesting to make sure its of highest quality. If this is an option for your table, I suspect it might work better for you than trying to jerry-rig a STR brawler using the fighter class and feats.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Hi there!

Hey there! Welcome to the boards! Here's some XP!

Our group is fairly inexperienced. And we don't have the best in-depth knowledge of how things should work. I was hoping someone could clear up a few things?

I wanted a type of strong melee brawler type of character. But tend to dislike monks.

One of the things that it took me a while to realize is that my concept did not always have to be represented by the mechanics, but that I could rather "reskin" the mechanics to look the way I wanted.

As a relevant example for you, it seems you want to do some two weapon fighting but you want to use your fists. And it sounds like you want to do this by the rules. But obviously, it's no fun fighting with fist that deal 1 + Str/Dex damage (or in your case 1d4 + Str/Dex damage since you have Tavern Brawler).

So, first question is... do you have the Dual Wielder feat? If so, use two rapiers. If not, use two shortswords.

Now hear me out, because I know you're probably thinking, "Why would I do that? I want to use my FISTS!

And yes, you can still do this. Because let me ask you... what makes a shortsword a shortsword? Or a rapier a rapier? Because see, I can take a weapon that deals 1d6 damage, has the light and finesse properties, and reimagine it as a gauntlet. Or a punch dagger. Or brass knuckles. There is nothing saying that a weapon that deals 1d6 damage with the light and finesse property HAS to be a shortsword. We have just all agreed that these mechanics should be shaped into a shortsword. But you can reimagine it anyway you want.

So I would suggest talking to your DM about:

1) requesting to retrain the Tavern Brawler feat into something else (unless you really want it for more than the 1d4 unarmed strike damage). The stat bump or Dual Wielder feat would be better.

2) Requesting to reskin shortswords or rapiers into brass knuckles (or something similar). As long as you have proficiency with the weapon and don't change the mechanics, its effectively the same thing. If is also easy to request for the weapon to deal bludgeoning damage rather than slashing or piercing, since each of those damage types are equal to one another. The only difference is what is thematically appropriate for the weapon.

This would give you an effective finesse weapon to use with your sneak attacks, give you the thematic image of using your fist to deal the damage, and remain very close to the rules.

He also has two weapon fighting, but does each fist count as a weapon, or do I need a dagger in the off hand?

I would say an unarmed strike can count for two weapon fighting, but not for the Dual Wielder feat since it specifically states you need to wield two weapons.

Edit: Nope. While silly, the Two Weapon Fighting specifies the off-hand attack must be a light melee weapon, which unarmed strike does not count for.

In order to use this feat, for three attacks?

You would only get three attacks if you have the Extra Attack feature (such as being a level 5 fighter) and you use your attack action and a bonus action to get all three attacks.

And can I give the offhand attack away, with the battlemaster's Commander's Strike?

No. You can only give away an attack from your main attack action, since Commander's Strike also requires a bonus action to give the attack to an ally. Since you need the bonus action for the maneuver, you couldn't also take the bonus action for an attack.

And no matter how many attacks you have, you only ever gain one sneak attack, correct?

Yes, you can only make one sneak attack a round, unless you go with the Scout (a rogue archetype that allows for a second sneak attack in a round).

 

[Charlaquin]

This is going to sound dumb, but it’s how the rules of D&D 5e work:

An Unarmed Strike is considered a Melee Weapon Attack, but fists are not considered weapons.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

This is going to sound dumb, but it’s how the rules of D&D 5e work:

An Unarmed Strike is considered a Melee Weapon Attack, but fists are not considered weapons.

Yea, this is massively dumb. I don't know why they make this distinction. From my perspective, unarmed strike should be considered a weapon with the light and finesse property. I mean they are literally the first weapons ever used.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yea, this is massively dumb. I don't know why they make this distinction. From my perspective, unarmed strike should be considered a weapon with the light and finesse property. I mean they are literally the first weapons ever used.

Awkward interactions with rules that relate to weapons, mostly.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

Yes, you can only make one sneak attack a round, unless you go with the Scout (a rogue archetype that allows for a second sneak attack in a round).

Per turn, not per round.

An Unarmed Strike is considered a Melee Weapon Attack, but fists are not considered weapons.

That's correct. I neglected to mention that in my post.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Per turn, not per round.

True, my mistake. [MENTION=6974911]Jawsofhana[/MENTION], fyi, this means that even if you already used sneak attack on your turn, and then after your turn ended an enemy next to you provokes an Opportunity Attack, you could use sneak attack again (if they meet the sneak attack criteria) since you are technically going on someone else's turn.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Yea, this is massively dumb. I don't know why they make this distinction.

Some distinctions that come to mind:
Weapons can be disarmed; fists cannot.
Weapons can be silvered or enchanted or made of cold iron, etc.