I saw the MATRIX 2 thread SPOILERS ABOUND

[Villano]

I know, I was just throwing it out there.

No offense intended.

That part of the film just bothered me. Like I said, the humanity really got lost in the sequel.

 

[Kesh]

The humanity was never there. Remember the lobby scene in the first movie? All those security guards that got cut down without a chance? The SWAT team?

Now, the SWAT team I can understand. No way around them without a fight. But the guards? Neo and Trinity could've taken them down without blinking, no guns necessary. Same for the cops Trinity killed in the beginning of the film.

 

[Andrew D. Gable]

Well, we saw this again yesterday and I paid closer attention to the whole Merovingian/Persephone thing with the speculation that they're a previous Neo/Trinity pairing in mind.

When they're speaking with Persephone in the bathroom, she says that M. was like Neo when they came here. Now this is what a lot of people use to suggest M. had been the One before. But remember that if the One and his S.O. went anywhere, it would have been to Zion. Is what the current company knows as The Matrix a previous Zion? Perhaps the roles of real world/Matrix flip-flop.

Also, at some point (IIRC during the Morpheus-Agent fight on the truck) the Agents call Keymaker an exile. Implying that he is maybe a "real" person who sought refuge in the Matrix?

And the whole speculation about Persephone's lipstick possibly uploading some sort of code to Neo which allowed him to affect the real world versions of the machines is a good one, considering Persephone's role in Greek myth.

I could speculate all day, and probably still be wrong, though. Ah well, I think I saw a quick glimpse of Persephone on the Revolutions trailer, maybe we'll find out more about her and M. next movie. Hopefully.

 

[Villano]

The humanity was never there. Remember the lobby scene in the first movie? All those security guards that got cut down without a chance? The SWAT team?

Now, the SWAT team I can understand. No way around them without a fight. But the guards? Neo and Trinity could've taken them down without blinking, no guns necessary. Same for the cops Trinity killed in the beginning of the film.

That's true. They were pretty cold-blooded right from the beginning, weren't they? I'll have to go back and rewatch the original when I get some time.

But the in first film they did exhibit more emotion, even if it was just fear, and in Neo's case, confusion. Everyone in this one was just running around being cool.

It reminds me of a site which just reviewed a recent made-for-video action film. It complained about how everyone was just so cool and he remarked that it was a byproduct of Quentin Tarantino.

I have to agree that there's been a rise of "Look at how cool I am as I shoot a gun and comment on pop culture" characters since Tarantino. Not a big fan of those guys (and gals).

At least, during the fight scenes in Reloaded, they weren't debating which was better, TJ Hooker or Star Trek.

 

[Arken]

Well, we saw this again yesterday and I paid closer attention to the whole Merovingian/Persephone thing with the speculation that they're a previous Neo/Trinity pairing in mind.

When they're speaking with Persephone in the bathroom, she says that M. was like Neo when they came here. Now this is what a lot of people use to suggest M. had been the One before. But remember that if the One and his S.O. went anywhere, it would have been to Zion. Is what the current company knows as The Matrix a previous Zion? Perhaps the roles of real world/Matrix flip-flop.

Also, at some point (IIRC during the Morpheus-Agent fight on the truck) the Agents call Keymaker an exile. Implying that he is maybe a "real" person who sought refuge in the Matrix?

And the whole speculation about Persephone's lipstick possibly uploading some sort of code to Neo which allowed him to affect the real world versions of the machines is a good one, considering Persephone's role in Greek myth.

I could speculate all day, and probably still be wrong, though. Ah well, I think I saw a quick glimpse of Persephone on the Revolutions trailer, maybe we'll find out more about her and M. next movie. Hopefully.

I think the agents call the keymaker an 'exile' because he is a program taht ahs chosen 'exile' just as otehr finished programs do. Though I might be wrong.

I thought the sound coniciding with persephone's kiss was just to emphasise taht's she's a vampire and since its teh matrix it's not blood she's sucking. I don't think she and the Merovingian could be a previous Neo/trinity pairing though. Just very, very old free programs plus the architect said that the neo/trinity pairing hadn't occured before as the Ones previously had had their love focused toward the whole of humanity. I don't know anything of course so its all jsut my own speculation.

 

[Bagpuss]

Re: Re: Stuff that Still Has me Wracking My Brain

I must admit I had no clue why he was cutting himself

I thought that was to do with it being a new sensory sensation. Smith is a program, and hasn't felt any thing from the "real world" he has probably never felt pain before (judging from the way Agents fight, they don't seem to feel pain). It's a new experience for him.

 

[Black Omega]

A few thoughts.

There never was any humanity in the series. Remember, Morpheus, an insane fanatic, has been teaching them to kill humans without a thought in order to achieve their goals. Trinity certainly could have escaped the cops at the start of the first movie without killing them. Frankly, I'm not sure Morpheus isn't part of the problem rather than the solution.

Ironically, Morpheus also has alot in common with the Oracle and the Architect. There is no free will. We are on this spot because we are meant to be, and we'll do what we are meant to do.

Thougjh it's doesn't totaly fit with the other information given, I'm hoping it's more Zion is a part of the Matrix, and they jack in to get access to the other parts, since it's either that or Neo is a real superhero with superpowers, and that whole idea is simply silly, IMHO. It's interesting that the 'real' world felt different to him after the meeting with the Architect.

 

[Kai Lord]

The humanity was never there. Remember the lobby scene in the first movie? All those security guards that got cut down without a chance? The SWAT team?

Now, the SWAT team I can understand. No way around them without a fight. But the guards? Neo and Trinity could've taken them down without blinking, no guns necessary. Same for the cops Trinity killed in the beginning of the film.

Looks like someone wasn't paying attention. The first film was explicitly clear that any living human plugged into the Matrix was a potential vessel for an Agent.

 

[Black Omega]

Looks like someone wasn't paying attention. The first film was explicitly clear that any living human plugged into the Matrix was a potential vessel for an Agent.

That part is certainly true. But by the logic Morpheus gives, you can kill thousands of humans without a second thought because they are all potential enemies. How long before we have to start wondering if Morpheus is really a good guy or not?

 

[Kai Lord]

That part is certainly true. But by the logic Morpheus gives, you can kill thousands of humans without a second thought because they are all potential enemies.

Nothing in the film indicates the freedom fighters enjoyed killing the humans that surrounded them as they tried to save the world or that any other method was possible. However, nothing indicates that the heroes were particularly bothered by this fact either, so I will concede that.

Its assumed Trinity would have come to terms with what the freedom fighters no doubt considered a necessary evil, though it would have been interesting if in the second film we saw Neo haunted by what he had to do at the end of the first.

In the context of the story its perfectly understandable, though it definitely toes the line of irresponsible filmmaking, IMO.