I saw the MATRIX 2 thread SPOILERS ABOUND

The Matrix is a system. The system's purpose is to control the human race. The Prophecy of the One is a key subsystem, one that acts as a foundation--a pillar--for the Matrix as a whole. Neo is a hacker, and his most notable achievements revolve around his successful hacking of key systems. The Architect expected Neo to conform to the Prophecy Systems performance specifics, but Neo did not conform. Neo hacked the Prophecy System, and the effects of compromising and subverting this control system to his own will will come out in Revolutions, but I can safely say now that the Architect is about to realize that every system can and will fail inevitably- especially those designed to counter such events. The Architect--and thus the machines--will not react in time before Neo successfully acquires root access (as it were) and attains control of the Matrix. Once he's at the root, he has control and thus can either destroy the Matrix or replace the Architect. At which point he'll find a third way yet again--because he'll see this situation as another control system, which he'll hack--and thus achieve the very real goal that the Architect's program intended to use against Neo.

Funky, ain't it?

And the key to this is Smith.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Stuff that Still Has me Wracking My Brain

The Questions:

1. There is a scene which is presented after Neo+Trinity have made love while they are sleeping. We see Smith chasing 2 rebels, one gets away, one gets assimilated into Smith.exe and jacks out. Neo wakes up.

Why does Neo wake up?

A) Is he having a bad dream while this is happening (of Trinity dying perhaps, which is also alluded to)?

B) Are Smith and Neo so connected that Neo "felt" his prescence in the real world (or the 2nd layer of the Matrix, if you are so inclined)?

C) Did Neo actually dream that sequence? If so, why is he "surprised" at all the Smiths later, and/or why doesn't he inform everyone of this rather important discovery.

I believe that Neo could not have had the dream, as he would have done something about it. Although, he has been having bad dreams about Trinity but doesn't do anything to stop her from jacking in until the end.

2. There is a scene where the person assimilated by Smith is in Zion, he has a knife and appears to be on the verge of attacking Neo. The kid runs up, interrupting Smith's plan, but he shakes Neo's hand. Later, in the council, Smith tries to urge the captain of the ship he is from to be the other ship to look for the nebuchenezzar (sp?) and is quieted by the captain.

What are Smith's motives while in the real world?

A) He is merely trying to kill Neo, If so, why does he some to hold some regard for his own life? He could probably have assaulted Neo even with the kid running up. There also seems to be plenty of guns and such around Zion, couldn't he have gotten access to something more dangerous and killed Neo?

B) While some of Smith's plans, patterns, and persona was imprinted, it is not a true Smith and there is a human will struggling against the intrusion.The only evidence is cutting his palm, but see below.

C) Smith doesn't know what he wants, though as the oracle states, he seems to want more power. This could be reflected by the smiths general group mentality, ie- there doesn't seem to be a "king smith", just a bunch of individuals with the same persona and goals. A singular race.

What is the significance of cutting his hand just before assaulting him?

A) There is a struggle in the body between the Smith character and the human who formerly controlled the body. This is still not a strong theory.

B) There is some symbolism to cutting his own hand.

C) He is trying to frame Neo somehow?

3. When the archietect and Neo have their discourse, Neo says "the oracle" after which the archietect says "Please" in a disparaging tone.

What does this response mean?

A) The oracle is not who he is referring to. Which begs the question, who is he reffering to? The only other likely candidate seems to be Persephone, but as she is a rogue program it seems unlikely.

B) His tone indicates displeasure at being interrupted so Neo could say something obvious. This seems likely, as the oracle herself hinted that she had a hand in the creation of the Matrix, thereby making her the "mother".

4. In the same conversation Neo is given a choice (seemingly). This choice involves the death of every human being, either plugged into the Matrix or living in Zion or merely the destruction of Zion with the ability to restock it with handpicked individuals. In either situation, Trinity dies. The oracle seems surprised by the emotion he reads from Neo, and hence, Neo's decision which is apparantly different from those who came before him.

Why is Neo given a choice?

A) If the One weren't given a choice, he would disbelieve the 2nd layer of the Matrix and awaken from it, giving him a choice keeps him from believing the truth. There is enough to suggest a 2nd layer of the Matrix mathematically, but there is almost nothing in the films to suggest this, with the only possible thing being Neo's control over Sentinels at the end of the film.

B) The illusion of giving a choice makes it easier to re-assimilate the remainders the one contains. An unwilling one may try to escape/conceal information which is vital to running the Matrix, therefore making it a willing decision of the One allows for the greatest retention of important material for the next reset of the Matrix.

5. Based on the films, we are led to believe the Matrix has existed in different iterations. Though the Matrix currently is running at the peak of human civilization, other matrices may not have been made with such a timeframe. 1999 would be an optimum year because humans had learned to support many many millions of people on a single planet, though the first Matrix would not have had that many people.

Were there earlier Matrices set in earlier times?

A) We don't know, but its possible.

If the Matrix has been reset 5 times previously and Zion subsequently destroyed, shouldn't there be holes going down to Zion already? What about destroyed hovercraft from earlier rebel groups? What about very small cells that escaped and are living somewhere else?

Technik
 


stevelabny said:
to me, the multilayerd matrix is NOT a cop-out.and does NOT suck.
what WOULD suck is if ANY of the exposition by the oracle or architect turns out to be a lie. sitting through that much exposition and not being able to trust any of it is NOT cool.

I think it may also offer some hope as currently, even if the humans win the world is ruined and has no functioning biosphere. Maybe things are not quite that bad off.

I still suspect that the Architech, the Oracle and the Evil Frenchman may not be aware of all that is going on - they may be hooked into an illusion, just a different illusion than the humans.

In the trailer for Matrix Revolutions there is a scene were Neo is standing on a rainy street crawling with Agent Smiths. The voice of the Oracle is heard warning that he - presumably Agent Smith but possibly Neo - must be stopped. Consider this...

Agent Smith can copy himself into other people, continues to do so and shows no signs of slowing down.

He could copy himself into every single person (including those occupied by other Agents) in the Matrix. As such he would essentially become God/the Matrix. Further, endless coping of itself and corrupting of data until it destroys the system is what virus' do - and Agent Smith now appears to be a virus.

One final thought - and one that just jumped in my head, almost like someone had downloaded it into my cerebrial cortex.

The Architech said talked about "the Mother" of the Matrix, but expressed contempt when Neo asked if it was The Oracle. Persphonie is a possibility, but then why would she be hanging with a nob like the Evil French Program?

What if it is Trinity?

Before you flatly dismiss it, it would explain how she was able to bring Neo back to the life and how she came back to life as well.
 
Last edited:

EricNoah said:


The Oracle was either misleading or wrong in the first film (misleading is my vote) as she flat out said that either Morpheous or Neo was going to die -- and neither did.

But Neo did die.
And came back to life after Trinity confessed her love.
This makes sense of when the Oracle tells Neo he is not The One, "not in this life anyway". I assumed that Neo learns to manipulate the matrix enough to conquor death and thus becomes The One .
 

vortex said:


But Neo did die.
And came back to life after Trinity confessed her love.
This makes sense of when the Oracle tells Neo he is not The One, "not in this life anyway". I assumed that Neo learns to manipulate the matrix enough to conquor death and thus becomes The One .


Aaaaaactualy... Now that I think about it...

Oracle: Not too bright, though. You know why Morpheus brought you to see me?
Neo: I think so.
Oracle: So, what do you think? You think you're the one?
Neo: I don't know.
Oracle: You know what that means? It's Latin. Means `Know thyself'. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Being the one is just like being in love. No one can tell you your in love, you just know it. Through and through. Balls to bones. Well, I better have a look at you. Open your mouth, say Ahhh.
Neo: Ahhh.
Oracle: Okay. Now I'm supposed to say, `Umm, that's interesting, but...' then you say...
Neo: But what?
Oracle: But you already know what I'm going to tell you.
Neo: I'm not the one.
Oracle: Sorry kiddo. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something.
Neo: What?
Oracle: Your next life maybe, who knows? That's the way these things go.

(then a bit later)

Oracle: You're going to have to make a choice. In the one hand you'll have Morpheus' life and in the other hand you'll have your own. One of you is going to die. Which one will be up to you. I'm sorry, kiddo, I really am. You have a good soul, and I hate giving good people bad news. Oh, don't worry about it. As soon as you step outside that door, you'll start feeling better. You'll remember you don't believe in any of this fate crap. You're in control of your own life, remember? Here, take a cookie. I promise, by the time you're done eating it, you'll feel right as rain.

She never says he isn't The One. She lets him jump to his own conclusions, and doesn't exactly deny them, but never says "You aren't The One!". And referencing the latin sign... I think the Oracle was trying to say that Neo wasn't, and couldn't be, The One, unless he stopped thinking he wasn't.

Now, this is very interesting, because in the original script that The Brothers W. penned, it went a little differently:

ORACLE
Hmmm. You sure got the gift, but
it's tricky. I'd say the bad news
is, you're not the one. Still got
a lot to learn. Maybe next life.

NEO
What's the good news?

ORACLE
Same as the bad news, you're not
the one.

Which actualy still sort of would amount to the same thing... She wasn't wrong... She was just right in a way that most of us didn't expect.
 


Here is another thought I had about the Matrix Reloaded the other day. I was reading someones review of the movie and they mentioned the dance party in Zion.

I thought it was an interesting contrast between that dance party and the one that happens in the first movie were Neo meets Trinity for the first time.

The Hel club is all steel, metal and leather. The party in Zion really focuses on the earthy sensual aspects of human nature. There are a couple of scenes where the camera focuses in on peoples feet digging into the mud. A way of emphasizing how the people are grounded in real world. That scene makes me think that Zion is probably real and not another program in the Matrix. Either the W. brothers are being very sneaky in their presentation of Zion or they are being honest in trying to portray the true reality of Zion.

I know that last sentence doesn't answer many questions but what I'm trying to say is that if Zion isn't real then the film seems to be cheating the viewers a bit by not playing fair. It is possible but I'm leaning towards the idea that Zion is real.

I have to wonder if they will have a dance scene for the third movie.
 

Ysgarran said:
The Hel club is all steel, metal and leather. The party in Zion really focuses on the earthy sensual aspects of human nature. There are a couple of scenes where the camera focuses in on peoples feet digging into the mud. A way of emphasizing how the people are grounded in real world. That scene makes me think that Zion is probably real and not another program in the Matrix. Either the W. brothers are being very sneaky in their presentation of Zion or they are being honest in trying to portray the true reality of Zion.

I hadn't thought about the contrast between the two dance clubs... that's interesting. And sure, whether you like the rave+sex scene or not, its easy to see why they're in the film: to contrast the muddy, fleshy, big bongo drum-y "real" world against the glassy, steel-y, PVC-y "false" machine world inside the Matrix.

First we're shown that the world of the film is divided into pairs of opposites: Matrix/Zion, machine/human, bad/good... I think the Bros. W. point is that framing reality this way, in terms of binary opposites is wrong, or at the very least its a form of imprisonment.

By the second film the neat categorization of the first film is subverted... we have seemingly free-willed "rebel" AI's/programs who act more human the Keannu ever did, we have the Oracle revelaed as a program, who may or may not be "good", we have a free Agent who seems to be Neo's doppleganger --he too breaks free of the confines of the Matrix, albeit in different ways, we have Neo stopping the squids outside the Matrix.

I think {and hope} the Bros. W. are playing fair... they're just playing a different game from the one the audience thought they were playing.
 
Last edited:


Remove ads

Top