I saw the MATRIX 2 thread SPOILERS ABOUND
- Thread starter KChagga
- Start date
Quasqueton
First Post
Just tossing in some more thoughts for the possible plot(s).
I too have thought the "real world" was another layer of the matrix.
And I beleive the Architect has explained the truth (as it is supposed to be). But this iteration of Neo is actually the matrix-created fake prophecy come true. Neo *is* actually The One. The One of the fake prophecy. That's why he can affect the sentinels in the "real world".
Morpheus explained in the first movie how the "original" The One broke free and awoke from the Matrix. I think this Neo has broken free (as evidenced by his affect on the real world sentinels), and will be the fake prophecy come true.
Sort of like the government creating a fake story to cover for a secret project, only to find out that the "fake story" came true and destroyed the secret project.
I probably mangled my thoughts above. I hope they are understandable.
Quasqueton
I too have thought the "real world" was another layer of the matrix.
And I beleive the Architect has explained the truth (as it is supposed to be). But this iteration of Neo is actually the matrix-created fake prophecy come true. Neo *is* actually The One. The One of the fake prophecy. That's why he can affect the sentinels in the "real world".
Morpheus explained in the first movie how the "original" The One broke free and awoke from the Matrix. I think this Neo has broken free (as evidenced by his affect on the real world sentinels), and will be the fake prophecy come true.
Sort of like the government creating a fake story to cover for a secret project, only to find out that the "fake story" came true and destroyed the secret project.
I probably mangled my thoughts above. I hope they are understandable.
Quasqueton
I really liked it. Much more than I expected.
A few thoughts...
If the world where Zion exists isn't a computer-generated simulation, that doesn't make it any less false.
There's the Gnostic idea that states the real world is entirely sprit, its God, and the physical world is a lie, an illusion, a prison for the immortal soul. {and there many such worlds/layers between our world and the true world of God}. A Gnostic's life is a journey through these false worlds whose ultimate goal is to re-unite the soul with the soul of God {hmm, like the Matrix source perhaps?}. And each false world/prison is ruled by a spirit, called an Archon {which sounds like Architect, doesn't it?}, who acts as jailor...
So its possible Neo did stop the squids in the real world, but its in no way the ultimate real world. He's just primed for Gnostic enlightenment.
Another thing, this time from Buddhism. Speakingly very generally, Buddhism is a set of rules that teaches you to free yourself from this illusory reality, to detach from it and reach ultimate understanding. It readily accepts the existence of gods and demons, and says there just as bound by the rules as mortals. And there less likely to "detach" and reach enlightment --perhaps because of their relative power in this world.
So perhpas the Gods of the Matrix, the AI's, are kinda like dieties in Buddhism... except for Agent Smith, who is now like Neo, a little more free, seeking enlightment, or power, or whatever, since this whole endeavor is a sloppy comic-book reasoned mess of different ideas and influences {and I mean that as prasie...}
Just stuff to muse over. The W. Bros. seem to be fanboys of Gnosticism, Buddhism, and skimmed over French lit theory as much as comics and kung-fu films...
I personally think Zion is in another computer-generated reality, that its a relatively pure sci-fi metahpor for Gnostic cosmology. I think the AI's are just as trapped as the humans they pretend to control. And I sure hope the Bros. W. don't drop the ball when they resolve things...
A few thoughts...
If the world where Zion exists isn't a computer-generated simulation, that doesn't make it any less false.
There's the Gnostic idea that states the real world is entirely sprit, its God, and the physical world is a lie, an illusion, a prison for the immortal soul. {and there many such worlds/layers between our world and the true world of God}. A Gnostic's life is a journey through these false worlds whose ultimate goal is to re-unite the soul with the soul of God {hmm, like the Matrix source perhaps?}. And each false world/prison is ruled by a spirit, called an Archon {which sounds like Architect, doesn't it?}, who acts as jailor...
So its possible Neo did stop the squids in the real world, but its in no way the ultimate real world. He's just primed for Gnostic enlightenment.
Another thing, this time from Buddhism. Speakingly very generally, Buddhism is a set of rules that teaches you to free yourself from this illusory reality, to detach from it and reach ultimate understanding. It readily accepts the existence of gods and demons, and says there just as bound by the rules as mortals. And there less likely to "detach" and reach enlightment --perhaps because of their relative power in this world.
So perhpas the Gods of the Matrix, the AI's, are kinda like dieties in Buddhism... except for Agent Smith, who is now like Neo, a little more free, seeking enlightment, or power, or whatever, since this whole endeavor is a sloppy comic-book reasoned mess of different ideas and influences {and I mean that as prasie...}
Just stuff to muse over. The W. Bros. seem to be fanboys of Gnosticism, Buddhism, and skimmed over French lit theory as much as comics and kung-fu films...
I personally think Zion is in another computer-generated reality, that its a relatively pure sci-fi metahpor for Gnostic cosmology. I think the AI's are just as trapped as the humans they pretend to control. And I sure hope the Bros. W. don't drop the ball when they resolve things...
Last edited:
Eosin the Red
First Post
I think it plugs into the "Why" question.
Why you are here is the most important question [to Neo] but it does not really matter any longer. Who you are is important because it brought you here but now that you are here, that no longer matters. The only thing that matters is your choice.
You could also come of with a few different spins but that seems the most likely to me.
Why you are here is the most important question [to Neo] but it does not really matter any longer. Who you are is important because it brought you here but now that you are here, that no longer matters. The only thing that matters is your choice.
You could also come of with a few different spins but that seems the most likely to me.
Ysgarran
Registered User
More thoughts about the Architect:
The Architect deliberately presents Neo with a
'choice'. But how hard can it be to know which
door he would choose? If the Big A had actually
wanted Neo to "Return to the Source" all he had to
do was paper over Door Number 2.
So what's the *real* game?
How about this?
* The integral flaw, when it arises, is necessarily
in two parts: like the negative and positive poles
of a magnet. In other words, Agent Smith and Neo,
Ying and Yang.
* The Architect *always* says:
1. Gosh you're so much more clever than all the
other Messiahs.
2. All the other ones were Whimpering Sissies who
Bonded to All Mankind, but you're a Real Stud with
an Actual Girlfriend.
3. Your choice is to be a Good Boy and go through
the door marked "Do As You're Told", or to be a
Hero and go Rescue your Girlfriend.
4. I fully expect you to choose the former rather
than the latter, because I'm Dumber than a Box
of Rocks.
* Neo's real job is to do exactly what he did. Go back
to rescue his girlfriend, and eventually cancel out
his other pole: Agent Smith.
later,
Ysgarran.
p.s.
Just having fun playing with ideas, actually I believe that the choice had to be there for Neo because being able to choose is one of the fundamental rules of the matrix that cannot be modified or bent or broken.
The Architect deliberately presents Neo with a
'choice'. But how hard can it be to know which
door he would choose? If the Big A had actually
wanted Neo to "Return to the Source" all he had to
do was paper over Door Number 2.
So what's the *real* game?
How about this?
* The integral flaw, when it arises, is necessarily
in two parts: like the negative and positive poles
of a magnet. In other words, Agent Smith and Neo,
Ying and Yang.
* The Architect *always* says:
1. Gosh you're so much more clever than all the
other Messiahs.
2. All the other ones were Whimpering Sissies who
Bonded to All Mankind, but you're a Real Stud with
an Actual Girlfriend.
3. Your choice is to be a Good Boy and go through
the door marked "Do As You're Told", or to be a
Hero and go Rescue your Girlfriend.
4. I fully expect you to choose the former rather
than the latter, because I'm Dumber than a Box
of Rocks.
* Neo's real job is to do exactly what he did. Go back
to rescue his girlfriend, and eventually cancel out
his other pole: Agent Smith.
later,
Ysgarran.
p.s.
Just having fun playing with ideas, actually I believe that the choice had to be there for Neo because being able to choose is one of the fundamental rules of the matrix that cannot be modified or bent or broken.
Assenpfeffer
First Post
Even if I didn't swoon over the movie when I saw it, these discussions are turning out some real gold.
I'm thinking maybe Agent Smith will end up playing into the good guy's hands at some point.
Or - get this - he's looking for a purpose, so he wants to take over Neo's purpose as the One. What if he succeeds?
I'm thinking maybe Agent Smith will end up playing into the good guy's hands at some point.
Or - get this - he's looking for a purpose, so he wants to take over Neo's purpose as the One. What if he succeeds?
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