I saw the MATRIX 2 thread SPOILERS ABOUND

[Dark Jezter]

Saw the Matrix reloaded on Thurday night, and saw it again on Saturday afternoon.

Frankly, I really liked it. Not quite as groundbreaking as the original, but definately awesome. The freeway chase scene alone was worth the price of admission. The movie did have it's rough spots, though, such as the now-infamous "rave scene" which was too long and awkward.

For both of the showings I went to, I stayed until the end of the credits so I could see the trailer for the Matrix Revolutions, and now I'm thinking that November can't get here soon enough. Although I will be extremely upset if it turns out that "the real world" is just another level of the Matrix. That would seem like too much of a cop-out to me, almost as bad as an ending where everything turned out to be a dream.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Saw it today.

Loved the movie. A worthy successor in my opinion.

I am still letting my auto-decipher subconscious work on some of the more subtle issues in the movie.

I, for one, loved the Agent Smith fight scene. Just too sweet. Some have asked why did he stay or why didn't he fly through the door?

Neo ain't the brightest tower of intellect. Many of the things he does, require effort and thought. He is still really new to this whole bending reality on a whim thing. When unprepared he tends to meet his threats head on.

So, like many in the audiance - he probably got back to the ship and said "Why the hell didn't I fly away when I saw more than one of Agent Smith?"

I want to know why he can't teleport yet? It seems to me that it is the next evolution in his travelling abilities.

Oracle, Architect, and the Merovian........hmmmmm. How does all this come together with only two hours of screen time remaining and much of that devoted to the battle for Zion?

The elder counciler seemed to be prepairing Neo for the standard anomoly decision later one in the movie...Could he be part of the Matrix.

How is Agent Smith out of the Matrix and how does Neo have powers outside of it?


hmmmmm.....Need another viewing.

 

[RolandOfGilead]

Food for thought...

Smith mentioned something about a connection of some sort between himself and neo.. we've all assumed that because neo had powers in the real world, the real world must be false too. but neo didnt always have powers in the real world: no evidence of that in the first movie. We could speculate that because smith has a sliver of himself in the real world, and neo is his polar opposite, neo may have a sliver of himself in the matrix at all times... he now exists in both realities. (We can even speculate that agent smith CAUSED this change by trying to infect neo)...
so he's able to stop the sentinels because he is still connected to the matrix.. and the reason he drops in a coma? He entered the matrix.. (with no hardwire, mind you).. so now he's able to enter the matrix at will if I guess correctly. (Otherwise, they will not be able to enter the matrix for quite a while, with no ship) and remember, at zion, they arent at "Broadcast depth" so he wont be able to do it at zion either.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Like it or not, something tells me that Revolutions will be leaning towards the Matrix within Matrix...or something even worse...its not going to end. I'm sure of it now...at E3, it was announced that there would be a Matrix Online for PC in 2004(I think...), and while it looks cool and all...is set AFTER the trilogy...

 

[drnuncheon]

More observations, more questions...

1) When Neo kissed Persephone (the second time), you could hear the 'Matrix Sound' - that sort of electronic modem-y noise, like whent he mirror went down his throat in the first movie. Not sure what that means, but I'm betting it's important.

2) Did Neo ever eat the candy that the oracle gave him? I missed it. But yeah, food is programming (hell, everything is programming), as we saw with the cake - so makes you wonder about the cookie and the candy...

3) In the first movie, Morpheus said he was released from the Matrix by the One. Was he one of the original 23 who rebuilt Zion last time? Was the guy who released him not really The One? Or is something else going on?

J

 

[mojo1701]

Re: Rave Scene

I think it was a little much, too. Same thing when Neo fought Agent Smith. It was good when there were a few of him, but I think it climaxed (and where it should've ended) was the big pile-on.

Anyway, I gotta see the first one.

 

[Chun-tzu]

1. The rave scene. I got the point after about ten seconds, but it just went on... and on... and on...

For what it's worth, Roger Ebert felt the rave scene was one of the three great set pieces in the movie.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/cst-ftr-matrix14f.html

I didn't have any problems with it.

2. Why is Neo still using kung-fu? Doesn't he understand that there are no fists, no feet, that it's all just code? We saw him unravel an agent in the first movie; why doesn't he do that now? And if he can stop bullets, why can't he stop all physical force directed at him? He seems to have forgotten most of what he learned in the first movie.

And what he did to Smith at the end of the first movie may have been a huge mistake. He somehow set Smith free; created a link between the two of them.

Don't assume that all code is the same. He can manipulate objects (i.e., stopping bullets, and summoning the two sais to his hands in the weapon fight), but he can't control people or agents.

3. The fight scenes were cool, but they went on too long. And the big brawl with all the Smiths was pointless - why didn't Neo just fly away at the beginning? For that matter, why didn't he fly through the door before the Twin could close it?

As others have pointed out, it takes him a few seconds to blast off; and he didn't get that time earlier in the fight. But, why should he have left? He doesn't fear Smith or any of the Agents, and he totally dominated the fight against the Smiths. He hardly took any hits from them, despite being vastly outnumbered.

Neo is also confused about how Smith could have survived, and why there are so many of him. He's not going to find out anything by leaving. I think we can also safely assume that Neo hates Smith. So why NOT take the chance to beat the crap out of him? Until Neo realizes this is pointless, and that despite his vastly increased power (he's taking on hordes of agents now, not just one on one) he may not win.

 

[John Crichton]

For what it's worth, Roger Ebert felt the rave scene was one of the three great set pieces in the movie.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/cst-ftr-matrix14f.html

I didn't have any problems with it.

I was kinda shocked by Ebert's rating of Reloaded (3.5 out of 4 stars). While I didn't hate the "rave" it went on a bit long for my tastes. After reading his review (thrice, now) I agree on many points but like the movie I couldn't exactly place why he liked it. I guess he was just really entertained, which is the point of the film. The best part of his review was the following...

The speeches provide not meaning, but the effect of meaning: It sure sounds like those guys are saying some profound things.

 

[stevelabny]

if i may jump in with a few comments...

i despise the question of why neo didnt just fly away from the 100 smiths at the beginning (or why he doesnt always use his SUPER super powers) theres a few obvious reasons. using the SUPER powers still isn't his first reaction. he only pulls off those moves if he has thought about it, or its the only thing he can
oh, and most important (supported by the 1st movie)
KUNG FU IS FUN!!!!!!!
for him, as well as for us.
never underestimate the desire to actually kick someones butt if you think you can rather than avoid the fight.

next, we the ineternet-savvy, role-playing "geeks" make up the smarter and more observant end of the movie watching audience. just because WE have immediately jumped to the conclusion of two or more levels of the matrix doesn't mean that the average viewer has. every "non-geek" i know that has seen that movie did NOT jump to that thought at all.

to me, the multilayerd matrix is NOT a cop-out.and does NOT suck.
what WOULD suck is if ANY of the exposition by the oracle or architect turns out to be a lie. sitting through that much exposition and not being able to trust any of it is NOT cool.

the architects comments about neo having "predecessors" is backed up by the merovingian who whined about neos predecessors having more manners. and if you believe everything that the architect and the oracle told neo in reloaded... it all but points directly to one more layer of control. which is also ties in neatly with the conversation with the councilman about control.
i also love the oracle's food gifts idea as presented in this thread. continues to tie everything in nicely.

i think the clinching factor that proves the mutlimatrix theory though isnt even neo's use of powers to stop the squiddies, but the mere prescence of agent smith in the "real world". theres just no feasible way for that to have happend unless its just another layer of computer program.

i also think the multimatrix theory ties up some of the other questionable matrix logic, like why the machines allow the rogue programs to exist and the huge gamble the machines would be taking letting the one have the choice to destroy the matrix.

we'll have to see exactly what happens to the matrix now that neo made that choice, since it didnt instantaneously disappear.
and also exactly what agent smith's next move is.
and theres always the possibility that morpheus is somewhat infected by agent smith since smiths attempt to copy onto morpheus wasnt broken as cleanly as the previous attempt on neo.

im not 100% convinced that this is the ONLY possible solution but this is the camp i've thrown in with for now.

RolandofGilead's theory does a good job of explaining the coma that neo is in, but doesnt have enough backup to win me over.

The only other thought I'd like to throw out is that if a movie can have this many people talking about what exactly is going on, it must have done SOMETHING right.

steve

 

[Hand of Evil]

While I didn't hate the "rave" it went on a bit long for my tastes.

I thought a number of moments in the movie did this, the rave, the fights. Almost like they said just one more kick, okay one more...It was enjoyable but it seemed to lack something to make it stand out.