I think the D&D experience system has a lot to do with my players being murder hobos.

Saeviomagy

Adventurer
If a particularly clever use of diplomacy, subterfuge, or other non-lethal method results in "defeating" or avoiding opponents in an encounter, I will award XP based upon the challenge involved. If, compared to a head-on fight, the non-violent or non-combat-victory solutions was very easy, you'll be awarded no, or only a token amount of XP.

This just looks like it will encourage murder-hobos. If I talk to the monster I lose my surprise round if I can't convince it, and my loot and 50% of the xp if I can.

It also seems like it encourages Scooby-dooesque plans. If I come up with something clever that avoids danger, I get nothing. If I dangle the party moron over lava to try to attract the monster, I get 100%.
 

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Kusodareka

First Post
This just looks like it will encourage murder-hobos. If I talk to the monster I lose my surprise round if I can't convince it, and my loot and 50% of the xp if I can.

It also seems like it encourages Scooby-dooesque plans. If I come up with something clever that avoids danger, I get nothing. If I dangle the party moron over lava to try to attract the monster, I get 100%.

I think that's fine as long as the party moron gets 150%.
:)
 




From what I've seen, I think people that play as murderhobos will play as murderhobos regardless of the system, but they're more likely to do so in D&D-like games. That being said, Out of the Abyss gives extra XP at points for furthering the story, rather than just killing people and taking their stuff.

Giving extra XP for nonviolent solutions would also help, as long as you tell them "and because you talked your way past the hostile city guard, you get 50 XP."

In 2e, I used the various optional XP awards system, especially for good role-playing, but that just created animosity, rather than getting people to role-play more.
 

Bawylie

A very OK person
Here's a variant I wrote and I'm currently using for the kids' group.

http://dungeonmastery.blogspot.com/2015/01/deck-of-many-deeds.html

Essentially each card in the deck is a quest or accomplishment or whatever that rewards XP. Players need to actually accomplish the things on the cards to earn the XP. You can also award a point or two (or whatever) any time you like.

The current rule for leveling is than you need 10XP plus your next level. So if you're level 10, you need 20.

They freaking love it. They love trading them in, they love drawing from the deck. They love pushing the game in interesting directions so they can get that XP.
 



Fimbria

First Post
Here's a bit of unintuitive logic. In homebrew games, experience points are actually a malus, not a bonus. The DM will generally scale encounters to match the party level, so gaining levels is a treadmill. At best, it goes nowhere. At worst, you're playing 3E or 4E and the scaling guidelines assume that you've picked up wealth along the way. If you haven't, gaining levels actually makes a character weaker relative to their enemies.

On the other hand, other forms of power like wealth and magic items are strictly bonuses. Those things make characters stronger, but enemies don't become stronger to match. Therefore optimal play is to scout around for secrets, sneak past the monsters, negotiate instead of fight, and generally try to grab all the freebies before picking up a level.

However, people don't do this for three reasons.

The first is an illusion. Gaining a level is an obvious increase in strength, but monster scaling is hidden. From a distance, experience points look like they should make a character stronger. It's only when you peek behind the GM screen that you see the downsides.

The second reason is psychological. Levels are a tangible mark of progression as a character matures and moves on with their career. Gaining a level feels good.

Of course, the third reason people don't do this is that it would confuse the DM to madness if players started acting like sane rational human beings rather than murder-hobos.
 

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