I think we're done with 4E

[RefinedBean]

Crits don't have quite the same impact in 4E as in 3E.

While this is true, there's nothing like seeing a 4E Barbarian crit with a daily and immediately take a second swing. Even Solo monsters cringe when it happens.

On top of that, a Rogue and Ranger's max damage on a crit (with SA or HQ going) can be pretty nasty, easily bringing a healthy baddie to half or lower HP, if not killing it outright.

But this is all, of course, my experience. YMMV

 

[D'karr]

But this is all, of course, my experience. YMMV

Yes, and the howls of joy when the players get multiple crits in a row.

 

[Emirikol]

A couple of the players had reached the stage where every combat was a sequence of similar powers, one was a ranger and used twin shot all the time as it was stat wise the best choice. Also they'd got to the stage where they could spot the exact round a fight changed from going either way to an ok we've won now we just have to spend the next 30 minutes grinding the opponents down. (

Man, I thought I was the only one who was feeling this way. As the DM, I'm finding the EXACT SAME THING. The combat is decided about 45 minutes before the end of it and the rest is uninteresting drudgery!

I'm thinking of beefing up criticals to add some randomness back into the game or something..maybe drop 50% off everybody's starting hp's.

It's been frustrating (boring) as a Dm to say the least [edit: because the players are limited in their actions too (as the other poster said).

WFRP (warhammer fantasy roleplay) has been an interesting ADDITION to our D&D 4e campaign. SEE HOUSE RULES HERE. I'm running the Path's of the Damned series but using 4e D&D rules. I ran KOTS as part of Middenheim and am using stat blocks from the other scenarios (and Dungeon).

After reading everyone elses posts (all good btw), I've decided that more dangerous critical hits is the answer. Minions will still do max, but everyone else will do DOUBLE DAMAGE like in previous editions. That should mix things up a bit.



jh

 

[Truth Seeker]

And yupe, add a old-school theme, crits work on the first and last roll. That goes for all (NPCs/Monsters and PCs alike).

Man, I thought I was the only one who was feeling this way. As the DM, I'm finding the EXACT SAME THING. The combat is decided about 45 minutes before the end of it and the rest is uninteresting drudgery!

I'm thinking of beefing up criticals to add some randomness back into the game or something..maybe drop 50% off everybody's starting hp's.

It's been frustrating (boring) as a Dm to say the least [edit: because the players are limited in their actions too (as the other poster said).

WFRP (warhammer fantasy roleplay) has been an interesting ADDITION to our D&D 4e campaign. SEE HOUSE RULES HERE. I'm running the Path's of the Damned series but using 4e D&D rules. I ran KOTS as part of Middenheim and am using stat blocks from the other scenarios (and Dungeon).

After reading everyone elses posts (all good btw), I've decided that more dangerous critical hits is the answer. Minions will still do max, but everyone else will do DOUBLE DAMAGE like in previous editions. That should mix things up a bit.



jh

 

[Ahglock]

I like a lot of 4e D&D as a DM and I think I'd like a lot as a player.

It has a quick and clean resolution mechanic.
I love the encounter design.
It is balanced.
I love the concept of rituals though i think costs and times to cast need a lot of work.

Still it has been grindy in many of the combats. Both with HP and repetitive powers.
The players who bother to look ahead in the PH have all said the same thing, I don't really care if I level its just more of the same but with bigger numbers.

These two things may be thew death of 4e for a long term game for us. It has been fun, but grinding combats and no real feel of advancement will eventually stop people from coming back for more.

 

[IceFractal]

I agree. I sometimes think we're crazy when we complain that character x can only do these powers when previous editions had the option of move/attack or full attack.

I see this sentiment a lot, and I want to shake people and say "You realize that there were other classes besides Fighter, right?" In the PHB, about half the 3E classes had massively more options than 4E ones, a couple were comparable, and the rest had less (although later splatbooks added some flexibility via feats). That's a far cry from "you could only move or attack".

That aside, part of the issue is simply that the fights are longer. When a fight only goes three rounds, then a character with six options has quite a variety of ways to approach that fight. When the fight goes on 10 rounds, that same character will pretty much always use all their options, and the only question is which order.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Out of curiosity, has anyone read something here that changed their mind from what they were comitted to previously? If you thought it was a grind, do you now think it's not? If you think it's great have you been convinced that it's bad?

 

[Baron Opal]

I'm thinking of beefing up criticals to add some randomness back into the game or something..maybe drop 50% off everybody's starting hp's.

I've decided that more dangerous critical hits is the answer. Minions will still do max, but everyone else will do DOUBLE DAMAGE like in previous editions. That should mix things up a bit.

I have considered eliminating the kicker. That cuts a first level character's hp from 50-70% right off the bat. A fireball that does 3d6+Int mod damage is a bit more effective when the orc's got ~14 less hit points, too.

I've considered max damage plus rolled for criticals too. That way the players get to roll the dice, which is fun, but don't end up sucking the roll by doubling a "1". And, of course, the confirmation roll remains gone. That adds a bit more tension.

I remember the developers stating that they put a number of "dials and switches" in the rules for us to tweak. Time to start.

 

[Baron Opal]

Out of curiosity, has anyone read something here that changed their mind from what they were comitted to previously?

No. I've only run a single game of 4e so far. And, it will probably be ~6 months before I give myself the opportunity again. Lots of theories, little experimentation, sadly.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Two comments based on recent posts, one on Barbarian crits, and one on a solution to the Grind:

1. Barbarian Crits--Somebody mentioned about the beauty of Barbarian crits. I was playing a recent game at 1st level. We were fighting a mix of Goblins and Hobgoblins. My Barbarian was raging, but in melee against a Hobgoblin soldier, and knocked to 10 hp. Since it wouldn't help anybody for me to disengage, and since I couldn't stand there and trade hits with the Hobgoblin, I decided to Howling Strike charge a Hobgoblin archer with my Fullblade behind the lines, and go out in a blaze of glory. I managed a crit, and then hit with the follow up attack reducing a 39hp Hobgoblin Archer to zero HP. I then triggered my swift charge power and Howling Strike charged the other Archer. As I was going down no matter what happened, I used an action point for Avalanche Strike and rolled a second crit, which was more than enough to kill the second archer. The Goblin hexer wasted me shortly thereafter, but the blaze of glory lived up to its name. I've been noticing myself sending the Barbarian on these suicide runs fairly often.

2. The solution to the grind: I instituted a houserule for tonights game for the end of combat grind. The idea was that if the monsters didn't run or surrender when the battle was lost, "Blaze of Glory" rules were invoked. The rules for "Blaze of Glory" stated that all encounter and recharge attack powers on both characters and monsters were recharged and treated as At-Will powers until the end of combat. The reasons for this were to make the end of combat grind go faster while making the endgame fun and exciting. I must say that "Blaze of Glory" was a fantastic success on both counts.