D&D 5E I thought WotC was removing biological morals?

[Lanefan]

Hmm… I agree with you that the problems with orcs wouldn’t be fixed by making them monstrosities, but I don’t think this redcap entry would be acceptable for a PC race.

Yet it's the obvious solution: take Orcs and Drow and all the other once-monstrous creatures (including Tieflings and Dragonborn, dammit!) off the PC-playable list and leave them as monsters only.

That way they can be as nasty as you like.

 

[Charlaquin]

Your point is perfectly valid and reasonable, but it doesn’t really address mine. You’re simply presenting an alternative perspective without addressing the elements of the perspective you’re refuting. It’s an acceptable position to have, but it’s not a rebuttal.

To your point, there are similar lines of reasoning for why orcs and drow aren’t problematic which were generally regarded as sufficient ten years ago but which no longer pass muster today. The idea of an insane humanoid (in appearance) murder “elemental” is totally the kind of thing that could come to be seen as problematic in the future. Redcaps come from folklore, just like goblins and elves and dwarves, and are generally regarded as a proxy for the “other”, just like goblins and elves and dwarves. The mechanical qualifier “fae” instead of “humanoid” may not be regarded as a sufficient distinction in the future. We’ll see which way the wind blows.

I think you’re absolutely right that there may come a day where simply being fae is not enough. When the very idea of an inherently evil creature, regardless of its origin, is seen as problematic.

 

[Bardic Dave]

I think you’re absolutely right that there may come a day where simply being fae is not enough. When the very idea of an inherently evil creature, regardless of its origin, is seen as problematic.

View attachment 141894

Agreed! Although, my point was slightly more specific: the idea of an inherently evil, essentially humanoid (except in name) creature may come to be seen as problematic regardless of its origin.

 

[Eubani]

A quick bit of research easily done using available resources such as google of a library would tell you what they are and that it does not sit with the evil race issue. This seems to be manufactured controversy.

 

[Charlaquin]

Agreed! Although, my point was slightly more specific: the idea of an inherently evil, essentially humanoid (except in name) creature may come to be seen as problematic regardless of its origin.

I agree with your overall point, but I don’t agree that Redcaps are essentially humanoid.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I agree with your overall point, but I don’t agree that Redcaps are essentially humanoid.

I mean by the normal, non-D&D definition of the word they literally are humanoids...

 

[Bardic Dave]

A quick bit of research easily done using available resources such as google of a library would tell you what they are and that it does not sit with the evil race issue. This seems to be manufactured controversy.

I think it’s less of a “manufactured controversy” and more of a discussion about where/how we draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable portrayals of humanoid (if you go by the dictionary definition) creatures in D&D.

 

[Bardic Dave]

I agree with your overall point, but I don’t agree that Redcaps are essentially humanoid

Take it up with the dictionary my friend! The monster categories of D&D (a rules conceit which has subsequently dictated fluff) have warped our understanding of the word.

 

[Charlaquin]

I mean by the normal, non-D&D definition of the word they literally are humanoids...

Ok, but we’re talking about D&D.

 

[overgeeked]

Yet it's the obvious solution: take Orcs and Drow and all the other once-monstrous creatures (including Tieflings and Dragonborn, dammit!) off the PC-playable list and leave them as monsters only.

That way they can be as nasty as you like.

They already can be as nasty as you like. It's just when you say the whole biological race is evil and that race happens to be packed with real-world racist tropes, then you have a problem.