D&D 5E I thought WotC was removing biological morals?

[Micah Sweet]

Ogres are considered giants in 5E.

And giants are humanoids in every sense except size, and the dividing line on that is unclear and deeply gamist.

 

[Lanefan]

Ogres are considered giants in 5E.

Maybe so, but there's a blurry line where "giant" and "humanoid" meet up; and to me that's always been the Ogre. (then again, the actual size of Ogres has changed from edition to edition as well, which is annoying)

 

[Hussar]

Ogres are Large Creatures and yet they fall under the "humanoid" umbrella in every version of the game I've ever seen.

I'm not sure size is that much of a determinant here until you get to Huge or Tiny (or their equivalents).

What do you mean?

Ogres were giants in AD&D. They're giants in 5e. ogres have never been humanoid.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The issue with 'it's fine because they're fey' is that fey is rather diverse category. Some seem more like spirits, but then there are others such as satyrs that seem to be humanoids in all but name. And at least at glance redcaps seem more like the latter. I'm not really that familiar with their D&D lore though.

That being said, I'm not a huge fan of essentially evil spirits either.

 

[Hussar]

100%

name any negative human trait and you will see they are all used with out groups whether nations or “races.”

This is such a disingenuous argument.

Yes, groups have been called, evil, for example. But, there is a slight difference between calling something evil and using, nearly word for word, descriptions of a race which are pulled straight from racist texts justifying why a group is inferior. Do you really not see the difference?

 

[Charlaquin]

The MM definition begs to differ. Humanoids are defined as roughly human shape and size with no innate magic. You can read additional things into it all you want.

That definition is demonstrably incorrect, or at least incomplete. Gnomes have innate magic and they’re humanoid. Ghouls have two arms, two legs, and no innate magic and they aren’t.

Some things, like redcaps, are the exception to the rule because they originate from the feywild.

I don’t see “originate from the material plane” in the definition you quoted. It’s a good rule though, and I would argue it is indeed part of what defines humanoid…ness in D&D.

 

[Faolyn]

Who?

Jean-Baptiste Lamarck.

Long story short, dude was an 18th-19th-century French who zoologist believed that evolution occurred due to characteristics during its life (the most common example, I believe, is the idea that a giraffe would stretch its neck and therefore produce young with longer necks), as opposed to Mendelian genetics. This theory is demonstrably incorrect (expect maybe some instances of cellular mutation?), but had become quite popular among certain political ideologies that revolved around the idea of breeding better people.

I see Elves as breeding more often than that, enough to sustain-plus their population but not enough to put the world thirty feet deep in Elves.

Right, well, D&D biology doesn't really take that into into account.

And who's to say in a typical fantasy setting that there isn't some place where Dragons proliferate; and the ones we see elsewhere are either outcasts or have left voluntarily, to find a new life elsewhere.

That is always possible, but I hardly consider that to be a typical fantasy setting.

Maybe. Strength in numbers still counts for a lot, magic notwithstanding.

But considering the way a lot of the Always Evil Marauders live in D&Dland, most of them wouldn't be able to create those numbers. Not going by the descriptions in their writeups, where you have to wonder how they're even able to produce any kids sometime.

 

[Faolyn]

Ogres are Large Creatures and yet they fall under the "humanoid" umbrella in every version of the game I've ever seen.

I'm not sure size is that much of a determinant here until you get to Huge or Tiny (or their equivalents).

They're giants in 3e and 5e.

 

[Azzy]

With regard to being bloodied, I do like the morale option in the Dungeon Master's Guide. Makes perfect sense that some combatants might run away when a fight turns against them.

While I am a proponent of morale rules, I think the rules in the DMG leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Azzy]

Two legs, two arms, head, and beard better than my ugly uncle. Looks humanoid to me.

This has been discussed earlier in the thread.