D&D 5E Idea for a new feat - Martial Flexibility

[Ganymede81]

The feat could be written more elegantly by simply saying: "When making a melee attack, you may add both your strength and dexterity modifier (max +5 total) to the attack and damage rolls."

That said, why would someone take this feat over +2 to their combat stat? While this feat offers some short-term benefit in that you can get +5 to your attack stat faster as well as double dip with the dexterity benefits, those perks fade away to nothing by the time you get a 20 Strength (which, since you need to be level six when you take this feat, would be at the exact same time you qualify for this feat anyways.

This just feels like a ham-handed way to do what the Finesse property effectively already does: let people double dip melee combat prowess AND the benefits of a high Dexterity.

 

[FrogReaver]

It gains you a feat. You can start out with 16 dex and 14 str. You take a feat at 4th level and then take this at 6th. You have max stat and damage boost and an extra feat that you wouldn't have normally had..

The feat could be written more elegantly by simply saying: "When making a melee attack, you may add both your strength and dexterity modifier (max +5 total) to the attack and damage rolls."

That said, why would someone take this feat over +2 to their combat stat? While this feat offers some short-term benefit in that you can get +5 to your attack stat faster as well as double dip with the dexterity benefits, those perks fade away to nothing by the time you get a 20 Strength (which, since you need to be level six when you take this feat, would be at the exact same time you qualify for this feat anyways.

This just feels like a ham-handed way to do what the Finesse property effectively already does: let people double dip melee combat prowess AND the benefits of a high Dexterity.

 

[fuindordm]

Well, I wouldn't want a feat in the game that lets a PC replace +5 + proficiency to attack with (potentially) +10 + proficiency to attack. I think my version does not break the assumption of bounded accuracy.

A finesse fighter can dump Str at the cost of only having a strong attack bonus for light and ranged melee weapons. The best damage bonus is only with light and ranged weapons.

A "master of arms" fighter can dump either Str or Dex (their choice) and have a strong attack bonus for every weapon. The best damage bonus is with either melee or finesse+ranged, depending on which stat they didn't dump.

The first strategy is free. The second strategy costs a feat. What makes it worth a feat?
* Extending strong attack bonus to a wider range of weapons (situational bonus, better than a ribbon but not by much)
* No penalty for using improvised weapons (basically a ribbon)
* ???

My own feeling is that it is actually a little weak for a feat, which is why I was considering giving it a +1 to Str or Dex as well.

 

[Barolo]

The feat could be written more elegantly by simply saying: "When making a melee attack, you may add both your strength and dexterity modifier (max +5 total) to the attack and damage rolls."

Yes, I know, I even mentioned on the original post. It was just an attempt to make odd atribute scores relevant, but I should admit, it was a lame attempt.

That said, why would someone take this feat over +2 to their combat stat? While this feat offers some short-term benefit in that you can get +5 to your attack stat faster as well as double dip with the dexterity benefits, those perks fade away to nothing by the time you get a 20 Strength (which, since you need to be level six when you take this feat, would be at the exact same time you qualify for this feat anyways.

Now, this is really interesting. Another poster had the symmetrically opposite opinion, namely why should an optimizer not take the feat. When such opposite reactions happen, one could interpret that the feat is not actually a dominating option, but it does have a niche, and it almost makes me feel I was at least going on the right direction.

This just feels like a ham-handed way to do what the Finesse property effectively already does: let people double dip melee combat prowess AND the benefits of a high Dexterity.

Well, more or less. Finesse allows this, but it usually means the PC will dump str. On the other hand, str-based PCs that have access to heavy armor dump dex. I would like something to allow for better rounded heroes, as I stated on the original post. Something for melee rangers who want to wield axes, or elven warriors with longswords, or fit yet elegant paladins. I am not trying to fix anything here, just trying to open possibilities.

I just noticed, I stated something relevant to this topic on another tread, where I actually had the idea to tinker with all this, but failed to mention here: I always aggregate in my mind the atribute scores and the looks of PCs, so I tend to imagine all str 20 warriors as hulking brutes, and that is not how I would like that knight in shining armor protagonist to look like. This is maybe one of the main incentives I had to come up with this feat, though some proposals that came up by other posters actually seem simpler while effective.

 

[Barolo]

Well, I wouldn't want a feat in the game that lets a PC replace +5 + proficiency to attack with (potentially) +10 + proficiency to attack.

Did anybody suggest something on these lines? I think I missed it.

So far we have seem +5 (from a combination of str and dex) + prof or + 2 x prof (which would go past +11 but only to +12 and only at level 17, so no big deal, at least for me).

 

[Ganymede81]

It gains you a feat. You can start out with 16 dex and 14 str. You take a feat at 4th level and then take this at 6th. You have max stat and damage boost and an extra feat that you wouldn't have normally had..

Yep. I see it now.

This feat just went from forgettable to broken.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It gains you a feat. You can start out with 16 dex and 14 str. You take a feat at 4th level and then take this at 6th. You have max stat and damage boost and an extra feat that you wouldn't have normally had..

You have that extra feat, since you've only spent one feat for this ability instead of spending two feats to increase your Dex by +4, but in exchange for that extra feat you are missing out on all of the other benefits of +4 to Dexterity.

Given that you're supposed to max out your attack stat, and you're supposed to continue increasing your other stats after that point, this isn't the worst balance issue in the world. It's certainly no worse than Resilient (Constitution) or Resilient (Wisdom), which already completely outclass simply taking +2 to the stat for most classes.

 

[fuindordm]

Did anybody suggest something on these lines? I think I missed it.

That was my response to Ganymede's suggestion for a feat that stacks Str and Dex bonuses.
--Ben

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Well, more or less. Finesse allows this, but it usually means the PC will dump str. On the other hand, str-based PCs that have access to heavy armor dump dex. I would like something to allow for better rounded heroes, as I stated on the original post. Something for melee rangers who want to wield axes, or elven warriors with longswords, or fit yet elegant paladins. I am not trying to fix anything here, just trying to open possibilities.

I believe that this feat would encourage Dex fighters quite a bit: they can use this feat alongside the GWM feat to get the superior damage of a strength build alongside all the other benefits of a high dex. The higher to-hit bonus that the feat will generally give will make GWM more usable, countering the fact that they won't be adding so much strength to damage, and they will have the better initiative, reflex save, skills etc that focusing on Dex allows as well.

I just noticed, I stated something relevant to this topic on another tread, where I actually had the idea to tinker with all this, but failed to mention here: I always aggregate in my mind the atribute scores and the looks of PCs, so I tend to imagine all str 20 warriors as hulking brutes, and that is not how I would like that knight in shining armor protagonist to look like. This is maybe one of the main incentives I had to come up with this feat, though some proposals that came up by other posters actually seem simpler while effective.

Remember that in 5th ed, Strength is athleticism and the amount of force you can generate, not just muscle bulk. Thus, under the armour, that knight might look more like Bruce Lee than the Mountain.
(Also bear in mind that, certainly in the Mountain's duel scene, which is the only part of the series that I've really watched, they really played up the 'lumbering hulk' stereotype. That is not how an experienced fighter would be.)

 

[Barolo]

I believe that this feat would encourage Dex fighters quite a bit: they can use this feat alongside the GWM feat to get the superior damage of a strength build alongside all the other benefits of a high dex. The higher to-hit bonus that the feat will generally give will make GWM more usable, countering the fact that they won't be adding so much strength to damage, and they will have the better initiative, reflex save, skills etc that focusing on Dex allows as well.

I thought about this, and because I wasn't sure it would be balanced, I did include in the feat a restriction to melee weapons that did not have the heavy property.

Remember that in 5th ed, Strength is athleticism and the amount of force you can generate, not just muscle bulk. Thus, under the armour, that knight might look more like Bruce Lee than the Mountain.
(Also bear in mind that, certainly in the Mountain's duel scene, which is the only part of the series that I've really watched, they really played up the 'lumbering hulk' stereotype. That is not how an experienced fighter would be.)

Yes, it is mostly a limitation of mine. D&D has most often been a simplified system, it is not an attempt at simulation and providing fidelity in in-game terms and real-life ones. It is just that it is hardwired in the str the amount of load one can carry, which is totally fine given the overall system complexity (or lack of) but sometimes it is harder for me to dissociate extremely high str with piles of muscles.

Anyhow, this edition has changed a lot of the sword and board melee warriors I have seen in game to rapier wielders, and shifted a lot of melee combat to the domain of dex. Finesse has become more a norm of for fighting with one-handed weapons than a niche. This feat would at least provide some melee builds with ways to diversify their atributes, and a maybe more compelling reason not to dump the other stat, or at least that is what I am aiming at.