ideas for building a dragon killing druid (needed for backstory)

[Brother MacLaren]

Another problem with playing it out is that we've given away a lot of the druid's best tactics here, and we've given away the fact that the opponent is a 10th-level druid. Could the player of the dragon really have the dragon act in the most logical manner given what *it* knows - which is not the same was what the player knows?

 

[Storyteller01]

It's basically unplayable, unless the Druid gets in a lucky polymorph early in the battles. D&D is not set up for guerilla tactics. Would be an incredibly boring and long series of encounters, I suspect.

Real life guerilla tactics are as well. Spend a great deal of time hiding and creeping for a moment of explosive violence.

 

[Bryin]

:\ too bad the thing aint a good dragon.use call lightning storm and lightning bolts with hold creature, might work ( try on some weaker cratures for this) or just keep doing 30-90 damage a day and itll be gone. never fought a dragon on low level before,sorry not much help :\

edit: break its wings so it cant fly

 

[Derren]

They'll help him immensely. It's a dragon, not a needle in a haystack. The chances of a fish spotting it on any given day: very good. The chances of the fish having told other fishes "really big bad over there": pretty good. The chances of a druid being able to decipher what the fish means by "over there": pretty good, if it's the druid's home turf. Which it is. Yes, it's also the dragons' home turf, but in this case it works much more to the druid's home advantage.It would take the dragon days to clear a swamp of every tree and shrub. And if the dragon could be sure it was a druid attacking him, he might do that. Or, he might guess that it's an invisible, flying wizard attacking him, who teleports away after each Baleful Polymorph attempt, and not bother.

And that all within a day the fish tells his friends (do fish even have freinds?) 6 miles away and the druid talks to this specific fish. Yeah, right.
The dragon doesn't has to destroy all trees, only all trees one mille arround his lair. Problem solved. Shrub doesn't need to be destroyed, only trees big enough that the druid can enter them.

But using Tree Stride, he can move up to 6 miles in any direction from his confrotation with the dragon. Per jump.

Now you need to reread the spell. Oak, ash or yew tree 3000 ft. per jump. Elm, linden 2000 ft. ...
No tree grants a 6 mile jump range. As english is not my first language, I don't know what trees that are and which of them grow in a swamp, so please enlight me.

How exactly is the dragon ever going to learn where the druid has made his camp?

By flying arround his domain and looking for it? Dragons have a high speed and good spot checks.

Sure, I can agree with this. If the dragon happens to have in his horde a Ring of Resistance (Electricity), and a Ring of Counterspells with a Wand of Baleful Polymorph to charge it every day. And if during the course of a campaign the DM happened to roll that kind of treasure for a dragon, more power to it. But with random treasure, the dragon is at a serious, very possibly lethal, disadvantage against the druid.

Actually, a ring of freedom of movement is enough to screw many of the druids tactics.

He'd have to destroy it in one round, though, which may be unlikely.

How many HP does such a tree have? (I'm unfamiliar with the amarican feet system, so I don't know.) Enough to withstand a breath weapon blast? What about a bull rush to knock the tree over while the druid is in it? WoT only has a range of 200 ft. so the druid has to be close. And when ambushed by the dragon, limiting the trees the druid can use in the area and placing a silent image it can get dangerous for the tree.

Yes, he does to sleep somewhere. And at 10th level he can do all his sleeping in the form of an indigenous animal thanks to Wild Shape

You can't sleep wildshaped. When you become unconcusionous, and sleep is very similar, you revert back.

Why would he have to cast Remove Disease after every heavy rainfall? So he doesn't catch the sniffles?

As far as I know, diseases you might catch in a swamp are a bit more serious than that.

 

[Darklone]

Could someone check the draconomicon or something similar (such as the BADD site) for typical black dragon lair defenses?

Dragon tracking druid: Easy, as has been mentioned several times: Fly around and kill single humans or other annoying things in 20 miles radius. Even wildshaped druids will have a hard time to get away for some days. And a druid searching for the dragon will be an easy target....nor would he have an easy time finding the dragon that's roaming the countryside looking for him.

For attack after the druid got away by tree stride: Charge and trip. Let's see how the druid will hop into a tree then. These druid tactics mentioned above will perhaps work... once. Wall of thorns: Woodland stride does not work against it IIRC ... wasn't that in the FAQ somewhere?

 

[Sejs]

Other way around - the wall of thorns spell description explicitly says that if you can move thru natural obstructions via an ability, then wall or thorns isn't a barrier to you.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

And that all within a day the fish tells his friends (do fish even have freinds?) 6 miles away and the druid talks to this specific fish. Yeah, right.
The dragon doesn't has to destroy all trees, only all trees one mille arround his lair. Problem solved. Shrub doesn't need to be destroyed, only trees big enough that the druid can enter them.

The six miles is where the druid sleeps, not where he's talking to fish. Naturally he'll have to do his recon closer to the dragon's lair. This shouldn't be too big a problem, since even a dragon's blindsense has it's limits.

Now you need to reread the spell. Oak, ash or yew tree 3000 ft. per jump. Elm, linden 2000 ft. ...
No tree grants a 6 mile jump range.

I respectfully suggest you take your own advice. At 10th-level, a druid can use Tree Stride to jump ten times. At 3000ft. a piece, that's 30,000ft, or roughly 6 miles.

As english is not my first language, I don't know what trees that are and which of them grow in a swamp, so please enlight me.

Me neither. How about you enlighten me?

By flying arround his domain and looking for it? Dragons have a high speed and good spot checks.

Considering Tree Stride, that's a 12 square mile area the dragon needs to check. Maybe someone with better math skills can figure out how long it would take the dragon to search that entire area, but off the cuff I'm guessing "a lot." He'd probably have to do nothing but search all day. He'd also probably still not find it, since the druid wouldn't sleep in the same place twice. He'd pick a different spot within the 12 square mile radius each night. And as far as the good spot check, I'm guessing the druid would use a camoflaged campsite, so it'd be the dragon's spot, vs. the druid's most-likely-maxed Survival skill. Plus the distance he's flying at. Plus the distance away from the site he is flying, unless he happens to get very lucky and fly directly over the druid's camp.

Actually, a ring of freedom of movement is enough to screw many of the druids tactics.

If by "many" you mean "one", since only the Wall of Thorns would be foiled by a Ring of Freedom of Movement. Or maybe it won't even foil that plan, since a Ring of Freedom of Movement costs 40,000gp, over twice the value of an adult black dragon's entire horde.

How many HP does such a tree have? (I'm unfamiliar with the amarican feet system, so I don't know.) Enough to withstand a breath weapon blast?

Wood has a hardness of 5 and 10hp per inch of thickness. Let's assume that a tree that could hold a druid would be, what?, 2 feet wide, so 24 inches, or 240 hp. An adult black dragon has a 12d4 acid breath weapon, for an average of 24 hit points per blast. Subtract 5 for hardness, and the dragon will have to breath roughly 13 times per tree to destroy it.

What about a bull rush to knock the tree over while the druid is in it?

Knocking a tree over does not destroy it.

And when ambushed by the dragon, limiting the trees the druid can use in the area and placing a silent image it can get dangerous for the tree.

Eh?

You can't sleep wildshaped. When you become unconcusionous, and sleep is very similar, you revert back.

This is a DM call. It came up before on these boards (a druid wanted to be able to sleep as a shark, I think, while his companions slept on a ship), and most DMs on that thread would allow a druid (with a sufficiently long "charge" of wildshape) to sleep wildshaped. Some would even allow a druid to combine charges of wildshape to get an appropriately long period, though I balked at that. Still, at 10th-level a druid can expect 1 charge of wildshape which would last 10 hours, more than enough time to cover his rest period.

I agree, though, that a DM might disallow that. In that case, a camoflaged campsite 6 miles away will do just as well.

 

[Derren]

The six miles is where the druid sleeps, not where he's talking to fish. Naturally he'll have to do his recon closer to the dragon's lair. This shouldn't be too big a problem, since even a dragon's blindsense has it's limits.

So the druid can walk freely "near" the dragon and it notices nothing?
Not to mention that the druid doesn't know where the dragon is.
Could someone calculate how long it would take the druid to search the 1 day flight radius of an adult black dragon until he is near it?

I respectfully suggest you take your own advice. At 10th-level, a druid can use Tree Stride to jump ten times. At 3000ft. a piece, that's 30,000ft, or roughly 6 miles.

From your last post:
But using Tree Stride, he can move up to 6 miles in any direction from his confrotation with the dragon. Per jump.
And while I suck badly a botany I doubt it that oak trees grow in swamps.

so it'd be the dragon's spot, vs. the druid's most-likely-maxed Survival skill.

Last time I checked the Hiding skill was used for hiding.

Plus the distance he's flying at. Plus the distance away from the site he is flying, unless he happens to get very lucky and fly directly over the druid's camp.

Yes, the dragon has to get lucky. As the druid has to be lucky to find the dragon. Only the dragon has much more time than the druid.

If by "many" you mean "one", since only the Wall of Thorns would be foiled by a Ring of Freedom of Movement.

Or the tactic to send giand crocodiles after the dragon. Except grappling they have no real way to seriously harm the dragon.

I agree, though, that a DM might disallow that. In that case, a camoflaged campsite 6 miles away will do just as well.

As hide is not a class skil for druids, it wouldn't work that good. A campfire might also give the druid away. (Yes, of course the druid doesn't need campfires, why should he. He can eat his goodberries he miracously got from somewhere.

As for the counter tactic:
The dragon destroys all trees near a location.
The dragon casts silent image to create a dragon in this area.
The real dragon hides in a lake. When the druid emerges and casts a spell at the illusion he has a big problem.

But basically. When there are trees everywhere the druid can use for striding, the druid has a huge advantage.
If there are no such trees or the dragon has destroyed all in the area the risk for the druid skyrocks because he can't escape anymore and has to battle the dragon. That doesn't mean tha thte druid will loose (they are strong/overpowered), but the risk is greather than when using hit and run.
Hmm. What would be the strength DC to break such a tree?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

So the druid can walk freely "near" the dragon and it notices nothing?
Not to mention that the druid doesn't know where the dragon is.
Could someone calculate how long it would take the druid to search the 1 day flight radius of an adult black dragon until he is near it?

The druid isn't looking for the dragon. He's looking for the dragon's lair. With a horde to watch over, a dragon isn't going to be able to do the "sleep in a different place every night" trick the druid can. It may take the druid days, even weeks, to find that lair in his swamp. But once he does, he's good to start his personal war.

From your last post:
But using Tree Stride, he can move up to 6 miles in any direction from his confrotation with the dragon. Per jump.

I apologize. This was my mistake. In my previous post I meant per casting of the spell, but I goofed and wrote per jump, which as you correctly pointed out, is wrong. 3000ft. per jump (assuming the correct tree, which neither of us seem to care to do the research on. ) and 6 miles in total for the spell.

Last time I checked the Hiding skill was used for hiding.

Actually, you're right. The druid would add his Hide skill for the actual hiding on top of his Survival skill, for how well he manages to camoflage his campsite.

Yes, the dragon has to get lucky. As the druid has to be lucky to find the dragon. Only the dragon has much more time than the druid.

No, that's just it, he doesn't. All the time is on the druid's side. The dragon won't even know he's being hunted until after the druid has already found his lair (which as I said could take days or weeks). Once that happens, the dragon can try to find the druid (nearly impossible) each day, and whenever he comes back to his lair--he gets attacked by the druid.

Or the tactic to send giand crocodiles after the dragon. Except grappling they have no real way to seriously harm the dragon.

You don't seem to understand. They don't have to "seriously" harm the dragon. They just need to do 20 points of damage to him. He'll heal 19 points overnight, and be down 1 the next day. When the crocodiles attack him again. Eventually (time is on the druid's side) the dragon will die, slowly, by taking a little bit more damage each day than he can heal.

This isn't a matter of a single encounter. In that case you'd be right. This is a matter of one encounter -- every day -- until the dragon is dead, without the dragon having any means to stop the attacking, other than leaving.

As hide is not a class skil for druids, it wouldn't work that good. A campfire might also give the druid away. (Yes, of course the druid doesn't need campfires, why should he. He can eat his goodberries he miracously got from somewhere.

As I pointed out, the hardest part for the dragon will be finding the campsite in that 12 square mile area. After that, slightly difficult, will be beating the druid's Hide + Survival (for disguising a campsite) rolls to actually see him. And then, of course, the dragon still has to kill the druid before he escapes. Because if he escapes, the dragon is screwed again.

As for the counter tactic:
The dragon destroys all trees near a location.

As someone else pointed out, the dragon could do this, but then the swamp wouldn't be a good place to live anymore. So the dragon would eventually leave to find a living swamp, and the druid would start using his powers to restore the area. The net result is still a victory for the druid: he got the dragon out of his swamp.

The dragon casts silent image to create a dragon in this area.
The real dragon hides in a lake. When the druid emerges and casts a spell at the illusion he has a big problem.

Where is this lake? And how is the dragon going to spot the wildshaped druid when the lightning bolts start raining down from the sky? Or really, only one lightning bolt, since the 10th-level druid's Will Save versus the dragon's caster level of 3 means he's got a very, very good chance of saving versus the illusion after the first bolt. At which point (if the true dragon has revealed itself) the next bolt strikes true. Or, he simply flees and remembers the trick so he can circumvent it the next day.

 

[Derren]

The druid would add his Hide skill for the actual hiding on top of his Survival skill, for how well he manages to camoflage his campsite.

Okay, I have read the description of survival two times and, despite beeing quater past midnight here, I am pretty sure that nowhere it says that you can use survival to hide a campside. So where do you get this from?

whenever he comes back to his lair--he gets attacked by the druid.

And what happens when the dragon stays in his lair? The whole call lightning and rethreat into a tree trick requires the dragon to be outside of his lair. But what does the druid do when the dragon is inside?
Also the dragon can relocate every day together with his treasure. Where is the problem?

And how is the dragon going to spot the wildshaped druid when the lightning bolts start raining down from the sky?

Spellcraft check DC 18. Not automatically, but still a possibility for the dragon to make.
Spellcasting animals just aren't that common.
Actually, natural spell doesn't say that it masks spellcasting, so the dragon would automatically recognize that the animal casts a spell by the RAW.

Ok, I edited this post four times. That means its time for me to get some sleep.
Now its on you to research which trees grow in swamps, how thick they are and how much trees there are in average.