Identifying spells being cast

[mzsylver]

henrix,

is making a spot check in a reaction to something that takes place a standard action? is making a listen check?

 

[mzsylver]

oh ya, kreynolds, we just like driving you insane

 

[Henrix]

I am just stating that which is in the rules.

Identifying a spell being cast is a free action.
You can do free actions when you take another action, but not when you have no action.
Other free actions are things like repositioning a Shield (spell), using the Eyebite spell or cast a quickened spell.
Do you want people to do that when it is not their turn?

Something that you can do at any time is Not An Action.
There are many examples of this, including skills that take no time, such as most uses of Spot.

If you want to change the spellcraft use in this instance to be not an action, fine. Do that, but don't bug me about it.

Xar started this thread by asking whether he really had to put up with one of his players trying to make a spellcraft check every time somebody cast a spell.
I think that is an abuse of the ability, and, by the rules, he does not have to put up with it.

That said, Iwould generally allow a PC to make a spellcraft check during his turn, to see if he recognized the spell that was cast earlier. Not all the time, and certainly not if he was making a nuisance of himself.

 

[Negative Zero]

...Iwould generally allow a PC to make a spellcraft check during his turn, to see if he recognized the spell that was cast earlier. Not all the time, and certainly not if he was making a nuisance of himself.

the use of spellcraft in this way is not really all that different from a spot check: something happens in your line of sight, your brain processes the information and tells you what to make of the situation. you don't need to take an action to do this. what you propose here, is more likely to use up extra game time while the players try to remember what spells were cast, in what order and so on. plus it also seems to imply the very ridiculous notion that you can't think if it's not your turn. the spellcraft skill check happen in the character's head after all. there's not outside effect.

from your own posts earlier you've tried to point out that spellcraft is a free action. but if you look at the passages you quoted, you'll notice that there is no passage that explicitly says that it is. initially there is the: "Using a skill might take a round, take no time, or take several rounds or even longer. Most skill uses are standard actions, moveequivalent actions, or full-round actions." but then you go on to point out

But that still does not say anything about spellcraft checks.

next you say that it's a free action:

Counterspells, p. 152:
"If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell’s level). This check is a free action."

but, if i'm not mistaken, that passage specifically relates to counterspelling. IF one is counterspelling, it's a free action. to me this simply states in plain english that using the check doesn't interfere with the counterspelling, i.e. doesn't take up any more time. it doesn't automatically have any bearing on using the skill at any other time. any assumptions to that effect are ... well ... assumptions.

like i said before, this is a skill check that happens entirely in your head. it's not like jump, or open locks or bluff that requires you to do something physically to something/one else. people make those sort of decisions all the time. looking at traffic on the road and deciding to take the next lane over; gauging the speed of an oncoming car and relevant pedestrians to decide if you should cross the road now or not; seeing the change in expression and body language of two people and knowing that you should find another route coz they're about to fight.

as for the whole nuisance issue ... it seems kinda tyrannical to tell someone he's being a nuisance for using his skills when they're applicable. of course he might actually be a nuisance, but i find it hard to believe that he gets that label based on this alone. ...

then again, maybe i'm biased coz in the games i play, we always let the caster make their checks when they come up.

~NegZ

 

[Henrix]

The only times we have for a spellcraft check is that it is a free action.
Free action is a well-defined term in D&D.

There is no evidence that it is not an action. But have it your way.

YGMV, after all.

 

[Negative Zero]

YGMV?

 

[Henrix]

Your Game May Vary.

(Perhaps not an acronym native to this board, sorry in that case. )

 

[James McMurray]

Magic of Faerun has a feat that allows you to counterspell without having readied an action to do so. In order to do that, you would have to be able to recognize what spell was being cast, during someone else's turn, without readying an action to identify it via Spellcraft.

Juat an FYI, for what its worth.

 

[Henrix]

What the Reactive Counterspell allows you to do is to take your next action in advance. So you still counterspell (and identify the spell) during your action.
It is a sort of reversed readied action.

 

[James McMurray]

Yes, but if you can't even identify a spell being cast, do you have to say "sure, I'll try and counterspell that" and then get screwed when you can't? Maybe so, but I woldn't rule it that way. In my game, the wizard and sorcerer are constantly rolling spellcraft checks if the spell has no visibl effects. Not because they ask to, but because I tell them to. The NPCs do the same thing. Its one of the perks of being an accomplished person in your field, you get to recognize things instinctually.

Take the example of a doctor. If someone walks up to him with obvious symptoms of a peptic ulcer (or some condition that is easily diagnosed). Does he have to wait 6 seconds to recognize it because he just told his friend that he had to go pee (thus using up his action for the round)? Of course not. I may take him a few seconds to formulate his response (i.e. "Do I risk this guy suing me later or do I tell him?")

Overall, I don't see where the problem lies. If your player is being obnoxious, simply tell him so. Instead of getting into a rules debate with him, try explaining to him that his constant interruptions to roll Spellcraft are interfering with the flow of combat. However, don't be upset if he counter with "but me knowing what they did is a natural skill for me, and highly useful tacticaly." He may just start foregoing the rolling of his skill check until his turn. He'd still be making the sam number of rolls, but he'd have to spend longer to contemplate his response, since he won't be able to think during the other players' turns.