D&D General If faith in yourself is enough to get power, do we need Wizards and Warlocks etc?

[Voadam]

Oaths having mystic power does have mythic and fantasy precedent.

Greek Gods swearing on the River Styx cannot break their word, even the mightiest of the Gods Zeus is bound by his word when he does so.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

A Geas from Celtic Mythology is an oath with power that can bring harm if violated or blessings if followed, it's what the 5th level spell with that name is named after.

 

[Voadam]

A Geas from Celtic Mythology is an oath with power that can bring harm if violated or blessings if followed, it's what the 5th level spell with that name is named after.

I believe it is also a way to increase your magery one level in a couple Shadowrun magic sourcebooks.

Similarly my memory is that AD&D Wu Jen take on taboos where they swear to abstain from something as a part of gaining their magic powers and lose their magic if they break the taboo.

 

[Minigiant]

That seems unnecessarily limiting to me. Why can't the power of oath and will simply be a core concept of a magical universe, something akin to gravity here?

There's no requirement that every power source for magic be a connection to something extrinsic to the caster.

Again like the thread name.

Why would there be warlocks and wizards if you can just swear an oath to nothing and nobody but get magic?

 

[DarkCrisis]

Again like the thread name.

Why would there be warlocks and wizards if you can just swear an oath to nothing and nobody but get magic?

I'm going to start a homebrew world where every NPC has at least 1 level of Paladin because why wouldn't you want free power?

 

[TwoSix]

Again like the thread name.

Why would there be warlocks and wizards if you can just swear an oath to nothing and nobody but get magic?

I feel like this is being made too complicated.

Magic isn’t push button. Just because a paladin gains powers from their oath and conviction doesn’t mean that everyone who swears an oath with conviction becomes a paladin.

Why does it work that way? Hell if I know. Maybe it’s a decision of the universe. Maybe there’s a god of oaths who decides who has true enough conviction to be granted paladin powers. Maybe there’s an organization who trains knights to be able to become paladins. Maybe there’s a tribunal of angels who assigns an angel to oversee every nascent paladin to see if they’re worthy.

It’s up to you as the DM, or even better, work with the paladin player to decide. If D&D was an actual setting, the rules would probably tell you. But D&D is a toolkit, so you’re going to have to do the heavy cosmological lifting yourself if you care enough to look for an answer.

 

[Kurotowa]

It's not just because. It's because they live in a universe where swearing an oath is something the universe pays attention to. That's how you get curses, ghosts, revenants, and ... paladins.

One of the oldest form of magic is putting restrictions on yourself in exchange for blessings. Swearing to refrain from certain actions, or to uphold a stricter code of conduct, is common across all cultures. Fasts and dietary restrictions for the common folk, oaths for the priesthood to maintain purity, oaths for the warriors to bring fortune in battle. A restriction is an offering, but instead of a material sacrifice it's your freedom of action that's offered.

So it should be of no surprise that in a magical world, a powerful oath to uphold a specific cause is enough to grant real tangible power.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Again like the thread name.

Why would there be warlocks and wizards if you can just swear an oath to nothing and nobody but get magic?

Because upholding an oath to the degree you start getting paid back out from it is effort too and different people weigh different kinds of commitment differently, all those tenants and code of conduct you need to hold yourself to at all times, isn’t it just so much easier to go to wizard school to learn it all outright and not get wrapped up in that restrictive code? or sell your services to an entity for quick and easy power just for doing the occasional favour?

 

[Minigiant]

I feel like this is being made too complicated.

Magic isn’t push button. Just because a paladin gains powers from their oath and conviction doesn’t mean that everyone who swears an oath with conviction becomes a paladin.

Why does it work that way? Hell if I know. Maybe it’s a decision of the universe. Maybe there’s a god of oaths who decides who has true enough conviction to be granted paladin powers. Maybe there’s an organization who trains knights to be able to become paladins. Maybe there’s a tribunal of angels who assigns an angel to oversee every nascent paladin to see if they’re worthy.

It’s up to you as the DM, or even better, work with the paladin player to decide. If D&D was an actual setting, the rules would probably tell you. But D&D is a toolkit, so you’re going to have to do the heavy cosmological lifting yourself if you care enough to look for an answer.

That's all I'm saying.

There's a god of oaths infusing power into paladin oaths and managing it.

The oaths themselves are balls of energy that empower paladins.

Oaths are True Magic altering the truenames of paladins and only those of conviction can have their names changed.

Each oath is embodied by a holy divine artifact that empowers their paladins


But "You swear an oath and nothing is behind it" doesn't make sense with the other classes existing

 

[TwoSix]

But "You swear an oath and nothing is behind it" doesn't make sense with the other classes existing

I don’t think anyone explicitly said “nothing”. There’s a large difference between “nothing” and “ineffable and unknowable”.