D&D General If faith in yourself is enough to get power, do we need Wizards and Warlocks etc?


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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Why shouldn't paladins be able to get magic power from nowhere by training? Wizards and bards do it, and those flighty jerks don't even swear an oath.
Wizards get their magic from the Weave or their setting's equivalent.

Bards tap into Words of Creation uttered by whoever made the setting.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Wizards get their magic from the Weave or their setting's equivalent.

Bards tap into Words of Creation uttered by whoever made the setting.
Almost all magic comes from the Weave. The different classes just access it differently. Bards use song, poetry, and other words. Paladins swear an oath. Wizards "hack" into it using years of study to find out the right magic words, hand movements, and material components necessary. Sorcerers are born with/mutated to have a spark that allows them to access it. And so on.
 

Voadam

Legend
RAW 5e warlocks don't even have to have a patron that interacts with them at all.

PH page 109: "The Great Old One might be unaware of your existence or entirely indifferent to you, but the secrets you have learned allow you to draw your magic from it."

Pact can just mean hooking up to the arcane being power source battery if that is what you want.
 

DarkCrisis

Reeks of Jedi
RAW 5e warlocks don't even have to have a patron that interacts with them at all.

PH page 109: "The Great Old One might be unaware of your existence or entirely indifferent to you, but the secrets you have learned allow you to draw your magic from it."

Pact can just mean hooking up to the arcane being power source battery if that is what you want.
Warlock still has to seek out that power be it an actual deal or learning unholy secrets. Paly just says he’s good enough and smart enough and poof power.
 




pemerton

Legend
So, a divine caster like a Cleric, Paladin, Druid etc don't need any actual divine link to power and can just use "The power of my inner belief )or love or friendship or self respect etc) to gain divine powers.

So why would a Warlock ever make a deal with Cthulu or a Fey Princess? Why would a Wizard spend thousands of hours pouring over spell books? They can just "Believe in themselves" hard enough and gain magical power. Cannot a Warlock just make an Oath to himself and gain spells? A Wizard Believe in magic so much he just finds it deep inside (but not like a Sorcerer who is just born with it!)?

Do Bards need colleges? Do Druids need a connection to nature? Do Monks need to train in the martial arts to gain a kamehameha?

Or can they just believe in the friends we made along the way and gain the power of love and self respect?
That is a world building question and the asnwer is what ever you want/makes sense to you.
Isn't it the case that these different sorts of PC builds - wizards, warlocks, clerics, druids, paladins and the like - are primarily there to give players a variety of options in build and then in play? So then the in-fiction explanation gets overlaid in sufficient detail (which may vary from reader/player to read/player) to put a fig-leaf/lampshade over the mechanical constructions.

Why would there be warlocks and wizards if you can just swear an oath to nothing and nobody but get magic?
Dunno. Make it up! Like maybe some people are clever but dissolute; or curious but dissolute; or whatever.

I feel like this is being made too complicated.

Magic isn’t push button. Just because a paladin gains powers from their oath and conviction doesn’t mean that everyone who swears an oath with conviction becomes a paladin.

Why does it work that way? Hell if I know. Maybe it’s a decision of the universe. Maybe there’s a god of oaths who decides who has true enough conviction to be granted paladin powers. Maybe there’s an organization who trains knights to be able to become paladins. Maybe there’s a tribunal of angels who assigns an angel to oversee every nascent paladin to see if they’re worthy.

It’s up to you as the DM, or even better, work with the paladin player to decide. If D&D was an actual setting, the rules would probably tell you. But D&D is a toolkit, so you’re going to have to do the heavy cosmological lifting yourself if you care enough to look for an answer.
Yeah, well this too.
 

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