If Superman exists and went bad....

[Ryujin]

Lex Luthor would be our hero.

Think it would be same. Governments would just report to him. Sure, every now and then he would have to punish someone but overall, he'll sit around and watch.

I've seen more than one convincing piece on how Lex Luthor is actually an anti-hero, who wants to keep humanity from being dependent upon a 'greater power' to keep itself safe.

 

[tomBitonti]

So ... don't we run into the problem of plot protection?

After all, Superman is invulnerable as a plot device. From the same way of thinking, going by the movies, he is incapacitated by trickery, and saved not particularly by super powers, but by the moral failings of his foes. That, of course, emphasizes his moral virtue, and, since he is "As American as Apple Pie", American virtues.

Making Superman evil breaks the plot assumptions. By definition, an evil Superman is a contradiction in terms.

Thx!

TomB

 

[Morrus]

So ... don't we run into the problem of plot protection?

After all, Superman is invulnerable as a plot device. From the same way of thinking, going by the movies, he is incapacitated by trickery, and saved not particularly by super powers, but by the moral failings of his foes. That, of course, emphasizes his moral virtue, and, since he is "As American as Apple Pie", American virtues.

Making Superman evil breaks the plot assumptions. By definition, an evil Superman is a contradiction in terms.

Thx!

TomB

Well, aren't you fun?

 

[GrayLinnorm]

This reminds me of a joke:

A man was walking the street when he comes to a bar. There is another guy hanging around the bar.

The second guy says "Did you know this is a magic building?"

"Really?", the first guy says incredulously.

"Sure", says the second guy. You can fall off it, and you can't get hurt".

"I don't believe you", says the first guy.

"I'll prove it to you", says the second guy. He goes upstairs to the roof of the bar and jumps off. Sure enough, he lands unharmed. "Now you try it".

So the first guy goes up to roof, jumps off --- and is killed.

The bartender comes out, looks at the dead guy and says to the second guy, "Gee Superman, you're a real bastard when you're drunk!"

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I always liked that joke.

 

[Umbran]

Well, aren't you fun?

It seems to me that his logic is flawed, by way of being self-referential:

1) Superman's invulnerability is a plot device - in other words, it is there to enable a particular plot playing out.
2) Superman is saved by the moral failings of his foes - this is the plot the device is intended to bring about!

This, therefore, is not a chain of logic, but merely a restating of the same point: Superman's power is a plot device. That's the base assumption.

What plot that device will be used to tell is a choice by the author, not a general assumption, as is shown by precedent in the aforementioned Red Son. If he's grown up in the Soviet Union, he is *not* being used as a stand in for American virtues. But, it is still a Superman story.

Superheroes are modern mythology - myths are used to tell different tales as the times and cultures change. Telling a different type of story is not necessarily a contradiction in terms.

 

[Morrus]

It seems to me that his logic is flawed, by way of being self-referential:

1) Superman's invulnerability is a plot device - in other words, it is there to enable a particular plot playing out.
2) Superman is saved by the moral failings of his foes - this is the plot the device is intended to bring about!

This, therefore, is not a chain of logic, but merely a restating of the same point: Superman's power is a plot device. That's the base assumption.

What plot that device will be used to tell is a choice by the author, not a general assumption, as is shown by precedent in the aforementioned Red Son. If he's grown up in the Soviet Union, he is *not* being used as a stand in for American virtues. But, it is still a Superman story.

Superheroes are modern mythology - myths are used to tell different tales as the times and cultures change. Telling a different type of story is not necessarily a contradiction in terms.

I agree. I'd put it more simply though: plot devices belong to stories, not to characters. Good writers will write different stories with different plot devices. And if a writer is so constrained in his craft by Supes' invulnerability, maybe writing isn't the best career choice for him!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Besides..."Evil Superman" stories have been told for a long time...it's just that most of them were told by other comic book companies, using their versions of the character.

Still, none that I know of were really close to the scenario posted at the beginning of the thread.

 

[Ryujin]

So ... don't we run into the problem of plot protection?

After all, Superman is invulnerable as a plot device. From the same way of thinking, going by the movies, he is incapacitated by trickery, and saved not particularly by super powers, but by the moral failings of his foes. That, of course, emphasizes his moral virtue, and, since he is "As American as Apple Pie", American virtues.

Making Superman evil breaks the plot assumptions. By definition, an evil Superman is a contradiction in terms.

Thx!

TomB

Well yes and no. Could you imagine the Superman of "Justice League: Gods and Monsters" wanting to rule the world? The son of Zod?

[video=youtube;HYSxN4ezhO4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYSxN4ezhO4[/video]

 

[Morrus]

Does anyone remember the Elseworlds graphic novel where Kal El lands in Gotham and becomes Batman?