If there was one thing about 3rdE that you could change, what would it be?

[Droogie]

Ok. My take.

For the most part, I would just want some rules clarifications. There are easier ways to explain the attack actions/partial actions/full actions junk, and AoOs were explained beautifully in the revised Star Wars and CoC D20 books. The writing in the D&D 3e core books is unrefined, and could use a complete rewrite. C

Less feats. Simpler AoOs. As mentioned, combat gets unwieldy at high levels. Could use some pruning.

I'm not a fan of the Vancian magic system either, but the new (albeit superficial) explanation of how magic works in 3e- preparation as opposed to memorization- and the addition of the sorcerer class have me satisfied.... for now.

And speaking of classes, we could tweak some of them, certainly, but I'm not a big fan of shrinking the number of classes down to four or even three. If you're gonna do that, you might as well chuck all the classes and go completely skill-based. My first thought when I first read 3e was "if this game were class-based, it would fit in one frickin' book! IMBECILES!".But the traditionalist in me eventually won out; if this game is still gonna be called "D&D" I would like to see a nice buffet of core classes.

I like the HP system. Its abstract and fast. Same goes with the current armor system. "Armor= DR " would be more realistic, I suppose, but the current system plays quicker- last thing I wanna do is add more number-crunching at high levels when the system is already sagging under the weight of 1000 feats. And keeping track of armor and weapon HPs as well as creature HPs and called shots and what-not - its a no-brainer task for a CRPG, but a pain in the ass for pen/paper. Thanks, but no thanks.

I like to keep thing fast and playable as opposed to realistic, but its a matter of preference.

edit: crap grammar

 

[Genysys]

Well, Theuderic, it's not that he's one of "those", but the fact that, well, he's... uh, well... yeah. Anyone wanna help?

 

[Snoweel]

ME stands for middle earth.

You can find the rules by clicking the link in his sig.

The bottom line is just that all spellcaster classes can only be selected every other level. You can alternate wizard/cleric, for example, but you can't simply advance as a pure wizard.

So a L10 char might be a fighter10, fighter5/wiz5, cleric5/sor5, rogue10, whatever, but would not be casting spells greater than level 3 in any case.

That's just brilliant!

So the bookworm court wizard who's never adventured in his life is a Wiz 5/Com 5 (or Exp5 for you people who think Commoner is only for farmers) instead of a Wiz10.

I like it.

My current houserule uses the Bard's spell-progression for all spellcasters (I have no Bards or Rangers and Paladins don't cast spells), but this is even better, not to mention simpler.

 

[incognito]

Merric B:

What a shockingly good idea!

4th book, for players who want to modify existing game
4th book, for the ostagia types.

I like the idea of diversity/something for everyone.

 

[der_kluge]

I think the big thing for me is skills. A cleric of a god of lies and deception has to pay 2:1 for Bluff and innuendo. Duh- makes no sense to me.

I haven't worked up a mechanic, but it seems to me that everyone should have Expert-like skills. Pick 10, and those are your class skills. That, and things like swim, climb, jump, etc, should be listed under "things I learned as a kid", and should be class skills for everyone regardless.


p.s., for those lamenting the lack of rechargeable magic items, wait. Announcement coming soon.

 

[mmadsen]

There's no way I can reduce my thoughts to "one thing" I'd like to change, but I'd like to see the game simplified wherever possible, without mechanics introduced where flavor text could work just as well.

For instance, we can reduce down the classes to three (Fighter, Rogue/Expert, Spellcaster) with any number of subclasses defined by their Bonus Feat lists, Skill lists, and Spell lists. The Barbarian's Rage and the Paladin's Aura of Courage can easily become Feats, just like the Ranger's Track ability.

I'd also like to get away from "one Level, one Hit Die" for a variety of reasons. I think "first level" should really be four levels, with Skill Points spread across them (as they almost are now), Feats and Special Abilities not so front-loaded (which becomes important with multi-classing), and so on. Then we get around the silliness of 2nd-level Scribes having twice the Hit Points of 1st-level Scribes too.

 

[apsuman]

I already weighed in on my "one thing".

I do not think the idea of three or four or five core classes is truely viable, not and still have DnD.

But, I really like the idea of *EVERYONE* starting at level 4. Commoners, experts, NPCs, etc.

That way you can start with a few extra feats, or a few extra spells, or you could multiclass rihgt off the bat.

g!

 

[Dinkeldog]

I would like to see a fourth book:

How to Customise D&D with all hints & rules for creating new monsters, prestige classes, spells, class/race restrictions, etc.

and probably a fifth book:

The Classic D&D with those hints being used to produce a game which is some ways similar to AD&D. (By which I mean more stringent restrictions on demi-human limits, etc.) Possibly even call the book "Greyhawk".

Cheers!

The customization book sounds like a good idea. There's really no reason this has to wait until 4th Edition, though. That could get dissected by WotC and put out for 3rd.

I don't think your Classic D&D book is a good idea, though. Notice that almost all of the recommendations here move 4E even further away from 1E than 3E is. There are calls for to-hit locations, eliminating classes, reducing classes, removing hit points, changing magic systems, and eliminating alignment. I see nothing here on reinstituting class/race combos, demi-human level limits, or THAC0.

Decent troll, though, for Ermanaric. Not Bugaboo-quality yet, though. Keep trying!

 

[Suldulin]

Make all flavor rules explicitly optional. Druid weapon restrictions, Paladin Monk and Barbarian alignment restrictions, etc...

aye!

 

[Gez]

I would not change the AC system. I don't want armor=damage reduction; each time I saw one it was either overcomplicated (lots of crosschecking tables, "so you hit with a dagger... that's piercing, small... he got a chainmail... you attacked his left arm, so that's a beheading -- no, wrong line, you deal 75% of your rolled damage instead."), inane (like a guy in full plate being immune to everything, including point-blank shot from firearms), or both.

I would not reduce the core classes to fighter, wizard, cleric and rogue. I'm rather the kind of guy who would have had the extra core classes from the PsiH and OA into the PHB. You need a balance between customization (fun for player developing their PCs) and standardization (less time-consuming for DMs creating NPCs). Having several "fixed classes" (like paladin) and several customisable ones (like fighter) allow precisely that.

I would not remove vancian magic. You may not like it, but that's not any sillier than any other magic system. Instead, I think the sorcerer/wizard alternative is excellent, you get a vancian class and a non-vancian ones. That's also in part why I talked about integrating the OA classes like the Shugenja, so as to have non-vancian clerics or druids. But I would have given (nearly) twice as much spell knowns for sorcerers (and bards). As is, the sorcerer is either a (bland and boring IMHO) bipedal machine-gun or a weirdo useful for the party every 36th days of the month. (Actually, were I to drastically change the magic system, I would have adapted the Ars Magica one, which already allowed formal casting and improvised casting.) Last thing on the magic issues, cantrips got the shaft. I find it ridiculous a level 20 wizard is only capable of casting 4 in a day. I house-ruled that, like the psion and psy-warrior getting free talent manifestation equal to their level + something, other spellcasting classes (save the like of ranger and paladin) get a number of bonus 0-level spell equal to their caster level. But cantrips still get ignored in new material (spellpools in T&B or MaoF, automatic metamagic feats in ELH... Don't that strike you as funny that an epic wizard can cast a meteor swarm in a moment's thought, without speaking nor moving, but need a standard action, gesture, and incantation for inscribing his arcane mark to sign a letter ?). Cantrips got the shaft !

I would not get rid of alignment. It's D&D. If you don't want alignment, play Rolemaster. Or Dragon Knight. However, a nice, comprehensive, easy-to-grasp explanation of the alignments, and what they really mean, possibly with a "beyond the curtain" to explain their reason of existence and how to remove them if they're not wanted would have been nice. Yes, I know they're a bit detailed in the PH. But badly. Despite their PH and MM alignment, for example, dwarves are too frequently depicted as CN (battleragers without consideration toward social conventions, tactics or even obedience) with evil tendancies (a certain love of carnage is, IMO, evil) and elves are too frequently depicted as LN (centralised empire, ancestral tradition unchanged since time so old the elves themselves didn't existed, strong community mindset) with evil tendancies (rampant racism is evil IMO). Part of the blame for this comes from 2e, however...

Other than allowing the sorcerer to get flavor spells and utility spells, something else that I would want to change is the ranger. Replacing favored enemies with favored terrains, and giving him some actual archery feats rather than hardwired virtual ambi-twf. And I would change some things about druidic weapons and the pointless "spiritual oath". I want foresters with bows and spears, no dual-scimitars ! Finally, remove the useless multiclass restriction for mons and paladins; modify the expert, aristocrat and adept NPC classes, and remove the warrior and commoner ones. Power should be the province of levels rather than of class. (Instead of a 8th-level warrior, a 5th-level fighter, rather than a 1st-level commoner, an apprentice-level expert. I'm not saying a noncombatant class like expert should be balanced for adventure, note; just that it should get some boosts so that it could be skilled at its specialty without having also tons of HD and impressive BAB and saves.)