D&D General If they thought they could get away with it...

[Thomas Shey]

I've absolutely had players, including some I still play with, who will under some circumstances exploit rules ambiguities and the like (the term a fellow GM familiar with the same people has used is "making 'convenient' assumptions). Some of the same people will, depending on mood, also point out such problem areas to bring it to my attention without exploiting. In some cases this is because they do or don't consider it an exploit.

Cheating is--more complicated. I cannot say with absolute authority that any of these people still do this. I do know that at least some of them have done so in the past, but it was a long, long time ago. My sense is they're far less likely to do so in a game with a functional metacurrency.

 

[Charlaquin]

Roughly 50% of all players cheat, and roughly 50% will try to exploit...though it's not the same for both groups as many players that would exploit, would "never" cheat".

Basically, I have found humanity in general to be: Always does the right thing always no matter what(25%), Always does the wrong thing no matter what (25%) and sits in the middle, mostly doing what is right with maybe an exploit and maybe maybe a cheat if they get a great opportunity(50%). So that is 75% you need to keep an eye on: this is why rules and laws even exist.

A vast majority of people only interact with others for one base reason: An Ego Boost. Most people lead dull lives and are 'put down' by nearly everything....they would privately think to themselves that they are a 'looser'. They are desperate for an ego boost: for someone to say how great and wonderful they are or anything nice. But they are unwilling to put in any work to get the praise. They love games as games can "prove" how great they are and give a huge ego boost.

Except when they play a game.....it does not just automataclly happen. Lots of times the game is too hard for them, or too complex for them, or even just beyond their understanding or abilities...or worse things. Not that they would ever admit that. The problem is, they don't get to feel great and don't get the ego boost if they just "play the game".

This leaves only one option for them: cheat. And you see it in nearly every game. Maybe it starts with a 'ok' exploit, but chances are to goes right to cheating.

What a sad world you live in…

 

[Charlaquin]

I wish to know how ENWorlders evaluate the statement.

I think you have their answer; They complain that the parameters of the question are not defined clearly enough and demand more specificity.

 

[bloodtide]

What a sad world you live in…

Not sure 'sad' is the right word.

 

[Charlaquin]

Not sure 'sad' is the right word.

seems pretty sad to me. Maybe bleak would be a bit more accurate? Grim?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

seems pretty sad to me. Maybe bleak would be a bit more accurate? Grim?

Fully agreed.

 

[CleverNickName]

In the 30+ years that I've been a Dungeon Master, I've seen all of those poll options at one point or another. But that's not a helpful response.

So to vote in this poll, I'm only going to consider my gaming group that I am currently the DM for, and the situation and factors that were in play in last week's gaming session: the PCs were doing a classic hexcrawl through a ruined village. Time-sensitive quest. We play on Roll20, and the game is configured such that no rolls are whispered (not even my own). So with all that in mind:

My players would definitely cheat if they thought they could get away with it. Heck, one of them was fiddling around with macros during the game, trying to design a display card that would make keyboard input look like a dice roll. It didn't work, and we all saw what he was trying to do.

They are constantly on the lookout for the next big rules exploit, too--the druid in the party finally unlocked 2nd level spells, and he is excited to try out the "rugburn" build that he read about on Reddit. But unlike cheating, I actually encourage my players to study, memorize, and pick apart the rules as much as possible. "Exploits" are a valid playstyle at my table.

So I voted "Definitely would do both things," but not constantly, and really only one of those is a problem for me.

 

[Clint_L]

In the 30+ years that I've been a Dungeon Master, I've seen all of those poll options at one point or another. But that's not a helpful response.

So to vote in this poll, I'm only going to consider my gaming group that I am currently the DM for, and the situation and factors that were in play in last week's gaming session: the PCs were doing a classic hexcrawl through a ruined village. Time-sensitive quest. We play on Roll20, and the game is configured such that no rolls are whispered (not even my own). So with all that in mind:

My players would definitely cheat if they thought they could get away with it. Heck, one of them was fiddling around with macros during the game, trying to design a display card that would make keyboard input look like a dice roll. It didn't work, and we all saw what he was trying to do.

They are constantly on the lookout for the next big rules exploit, too--the druid in the party finally unlocked 2nd level spells, and he is excited to try out the "rugburn" build that he read about on Reddit. But unlike cheating, I actually encourage my players to study, memorize, and pick apart the rules as much as possible. "Exploits" are a valid playstyle at my table.

All of that would drive me crazy. I couldn't play or DM with a group like that. But it seems to be working for you, so that's all that matters.

 

[Mad_Jack]

I had a level 1 player hit a goblin for something like 15 points of damage with a single longsword blow, non-critical, and on checking their sheet saw that they were equipped with a holy avenger...and had a strength of 24 (I noted that they had also given themselves both a fly speed and a burrowing speed).

Ya know, I'm definitely not down with the 24 STR and the magic sword, but I think if one of my players (especially a younger one) had decided to give themselves something as random as a burrowing speed, I might just let them keep it, lol...

 

[Lord Shark]

In nearly 44 years of playing RPGs, I cannot remember ever seeing a player cheat, unless you consider juvenile nonsense like making up deliberately overpowered classes back in the 1E days cheating.

And the definition of "exploit" is too vague. For some people, if I decide that I want my character to be very good with swords and therefore choose the Very Good with Swords feat, that's exploitation and powergaming.

 

[niklinna]

My players would definitely cheat if they thought they could get away with it. Heck, one of them was fiddling around with macros during the game, trying to design a display card that would make keyboard input look like a dice roll. It didn't work, and we all saw what he was trying to do.

There's clever cheating, and then there's stupid cheating. Did you all shame him by typing, "Perhaps you should do that in your own game instance so we can't see you trying to figure out how to cheat"?

 

[LordEntrails]

It depends on the players.

I've had players that will cheat if they can. And as a player or GM I will not continue to play with them. I don't tolerate cheating.

Exploiting the rules... I currently have players that will do so, openly and with the whole tables' agreement. Effectively we make a ruling together so that the Rule of Cool is present. But, we don't hide it from each other.

 

[Scribe]

I think most wont openly/knowingly cheat.

I think most will (by various definitions) exploit.

 

[Lanefan]

And the definition of "exploit" is too vague. For some people, if I decide that I want my character to be very good with swords and therefore choose the Very Good with Swords feat, that's exploitation and powergaming.

The boundary between exploit and creative play is very fuzzy. Here's an example that came up in my game:

Situation: a few characters hit a teleport trap and found themselves inside a small cell with transparent walls of force, in the middle of an otherwise big open area. They could see there were no immediate threats outside the cell, but had no way to escape (it's intended as a pure death trap; you get stuck in there and unless you've got some sort of dimension door or teleport or similar available, you eventually starve).

Nobody has any of those effects available but a caster does have Rope Trick. So, she casts Rope Trick and everyone climbs in. Rope is pulled up and then (and here's the creative bit) because there's nothing saying the rope always has to be lowered out of the middle of the "floor" of the little demi-plane it's instead lowered out of a corner, outside the cell wall! Everyone climbs down, and then they just have to worry about getting back to where they came from.

Exploit, or creative play?

 

[CleverNickName]

There's clever cheating, and then there's stupid cheating. Did you all shame him by typing, "Perhaps you should do that in your own game instance so we can't see you trying to figure out how to cheat"?

Oh yeah. People who get caught cheating at the table will never hear the end of it. We guilt-tripped him so hard he's an Italian Grandma now.

I guess we could have made a big deal about it, stopped the game and have The Talk about honesty and expectations and how the game suffers when people cheat, etc. But it rarely comes to that. Ususally the cheater knows he's been caught, and is quick to fess up and course-correct. We just have a good laugh about it and move on because we're all friends.

 

[Clint_L]

The boundary between exploit and creative play is very fuzzy. Here's an example that came up in my game:

Situation: a few characters hit a teleport trap and found themselves inside a small cell with transparent walls of force, in the middle of an otherwise big open area. They could see there were no immediate threats outside the cell, but had no way to escape (it's intended as a pure death trap; you get stuck in there and unless you've got some sort of dimension door or teleport or similar available, you eventually starve).

Nobody has any of those effects available but a caster does have Rope Trick. So, she casts Rope Trick and everyone climbs in. Rope is pulled up and then (and here's the creative bit) because there's nothing saying the rope always has to be lowered out of the middle of the "floor" of the little demi-plane it's instead lowered out of a corner, outside the cell wall! Everyone climbs down, and then they just have to worry about getting back to where they came from.

Exploit, or creative play?

Creative play and I love it!

Edit: for me exploits are usually pre-planned. They come from players parsing the rules and the internet and then coming up with some ungodly combination that was pretty clearly not the intent of the designers, and also likely wreaks havoc with the story.

I have a Grade 12 student who has at least one new one every week. They're entertaining, but when he asks if I would allow it I'm always a big "NOPE".

 

[Vaalingrade]

I never expected they would cheat, but this weekend...

...This weekend I caught my players seeing another DM.

Obviously, I threw my drink in their faces and tackled the DM into the pool.

 

[MarkB]

I never expected they would cheat, but this weekend...

...This weekend I caught my players seeing another DM.

Obviously, I threw my drink in their faces and tackled the DM into the pool.

"It didn't mean anything honey, it was just a one-shot."

 

[Mad_Jack]

I never expected they would cheat, but this weekend...

...This weekend I caught my players seeing another DM.

Obviously, I threw my drink in their faces and tackled the DM into the pool.

That's even worse than walking in on one of them playing a game by themselves on their tablet.

 

[bloodtide]

Exploit, or creative play?

Creative Play.

An export would be: Player:"I cast the Tiny hut Sideways so the open floor faces the dragon and when the dragon breathes it's breath weapon gets all absorbed into the Tiny Hut!"