D&D 5E If you aren't buying magic items, where will you spend your gold?

[Morte]

Copying spell(book)s seems pretty expensive for a wizard, at least in the lower levels.

 

[CapnZapp]

Has anyone mentioned scaling back on the gold? If you aren't going to allow purchasing of items or even the creation of items - why not just give out less gold? That way, you won't have people complaining about tons of gold but nothing to spend it on.

I personally think people have gotten entirely too hung up on the way 3rd and 4th edition handled items. There is more to gold than spending it on magical items.

But the DMG doesn't detail any such options that are directly comparable to items. Alternatives for the adventurer so well described in recent posts, the not-king.

 

[GameOgre]

I played and ran D&D 1st edition for decades spending gold faster than I could gain it. Never once did anyone at our table buy a magic item. Instead we spent our gold on headquarters ,bribes ,tithes ,ships ,magical flying mounts ,high quality non-magical equipment ,land, henchmen , servants , helping improve locals that appealed to us such as friendly villages , bounties on the heads of our enemies , Flat out wasted entire kingdoms treasuries by living so wasteful and throwing such massive parties that we once had to sit through a sermon of the high priest of Stcuthbert in Greyhawk City about the evils of over indulgence and its effect on the good people of the city.

We once funded a war. We bought too many towers and small businesses to count(and mostly drove them strait out of business because well, we were adventurers and not business minded people.)

We often paid our employees WAY too much but in general we had extremely loyal employees!

We bought so many high quality normal items of value that were extremely unique, not just things like Soft Dragon hide moccasins or Trent Bookcases but crazy things that we would get addicted to like Poached wyvern eggs for breakfast (we once spent 4 game nights in a row tracking down and gutting the evil SOB that cut us off from our preciouses poached wyvern eggs! Damn DRUIDS!!)

 

[jimmifett]

Buying up majorities of farm lands, stock piling food, then ceasing food production in enemy / non submitting nations. If the nation tries to seize the farms, heavy salting of the lands. During resulting famines, offer food to the non complying nations at bankrupting rates. After the citizenry revolt and displace government, install loyal figureheads / regional Moffs, having magewrights, wizards and druids repair the farmlands.

Buy up majority of fishing fleets large and small and price out competitors. Majority stakes in trading caravans and trade in general.

Initiate a campaign to exterminate bards on sight.

Become God-Emperor.

 

[steeldragons]

Pretty much all of this has been presented/covered before...but since it seems to bare repeating...

There's plenty for a "not-king" to spend money on. It means having to actually keep track of your gold and your belongings. Not just "I walk into a store and drop a sack on the counter and walk out with me hand picked magic item(s)." 5e does not assume that is possible. It is not part of the construction of the very framework of the system. Period. End.

If you are NOT interested in crafting items, building castles, administering domains and/or raising armies (at least some soldiers needs to gets paid y'all!), then there are prices for food, drink and accommodation, at a variety of luxury levels. Are you scraping by cuz your character is a greedy git and wants to have as much gold on him as possible for some imagined/future "retirement"? Are you living high on the hog? You're not building a castle/stronghold/homebase/hideout? Fine. Where are you sleeping every night you aren't on the road? What are you eating/drinking? There's #1. That's uses gold.

The non-king adventurer still needs to get around. Mounts. They cost...a lot. They need to be fed, watered and housed. That uses gold. Even if you're so uber-kewl to have special mounts (like griffons or dragons) they have some cost associated to their upkeep (hell, your dragon mount might actually insist on getting paid, himself, to add to his own hidden hoard). Carts? Wagons? Wheels break, axles break, they get filled with arrow holes or burned to ash by incoming fireballs. Gotta fix it or get a new one. That uses gold.

Henchmen/hirelings/retainers/trainees/etc... You're the uber-kewlz adventurer. You don't carry yer own stinkin' torch! Who's cooking your meals? Who's oiling your armor? Who's grooming and watering your mounts? You need some "nobody's" [alternately, fun well-developed npc's] to do your grunt work. Maybe a small entourage of low level bodyguard fighters, an advisor cleric or mage or lower level spellcasters to handle the day-to-day ritual casting, a few extra rogues to go set off...er...I mean, search for and disarm traps. "Followers", as we'll collectively call them here, whichever term is used, at least some of them will require payment. They need to be fed, watered, housed and [in most cases] equipped. That uses gold.

When was the last time your had your shield, armor or weapons cleaned up/repaired? You don't have a stronghold. No dwarven weaponsmith on retainer? Gotta find someone with the know how to do it for you. That uses gold. If tracking damage to shields and armor isn't your game-style-thing, fine. Instead of tracking it, it just, one day, is unusable and instead of repair, you need to buy new. Either way, it uses gold.

"Incidentals": Your arrows, your spell components, holy water and oil flasks, iron pitons, more oil and/or candles for the lamps/lanterns, torches, grapple hooks (that you can't always recover), healer's kits, and other equipment that may or may not be crucial or used every day/all the time, but you do -over time- use it up. Stuff's gotta be bought as you continue on the path of the non-king adventurer. Track it, piece by piece, or don't and just say "the monthly 'stuff' bill, assuming no special items, is X much. Deduct it." That uses gold.

So, between what's in the PHB and what it seems will be in the DMG, there is SCADS to spend your gold on.

Now, you will tell us how you don't play "that way" and/or don't want to do any of that. So none of that counts and the system is still faulty -because see my previous post.

The DMG isn't giving you alternate options? Yeah. It is. Crafting items, building castles, and running businesses (and other "downtime" subsystems that I don't remember atm). So yes. The DMG does give you stuff to do with your gold...as the PHB already has.

If none of that is acceptable...what do want people to tell you? Go play the system and way you want to. *shrug* 5e's not going to stop you.

As has been pointed out may times, if 5e's core assumptions are not what you need to have "fun", then change them and play how you want. No one's going to stop you. But you can't then whine that 5e "isn't doing it 'right'" or is somehow a flawed system because when you allowed easily purchasable magic items with set-in-stone prices the game imploded/fell apart/got too OP/nothing was a challenge/etc...etc...ad infinitum. That's not 5e's fault or problem.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Oh, don't forget TAXES, ownership and dwarves and elves - in game taxes can be rough but I don't see that in many games. Another issue is ownership; even today, to salvage from 500 years ago you have to give some of it to someone and with long lived races, could be interesting.

 

[jimmifett]

You only have to pay taxes if you fear the group collecting taxes. After eliminating your first deity or two, taxation should be a thing YOU collect. Before that, One should be able to afford armies to repel others attempting to collect taxes from you.

For salvage, possession is 11/10ths of the law if the other party cannot stand against your armies. Ancient elven relic / weapon recovered from the ocean? Just let them pointy eared hipsters try to get in on any of the action.

 

[Sailor Moon]

But the DMG doesn't detail any such options that are directly comparable to items. Alternatives for the adventurer so well described in recent posts, the not-king.

Not sure I'm reading your post correctly, but it sounds like you are worried about wealth by level and I'm sure it really doesn't have much of a place in 5th edition. You can give out as much or as less as you want. You don't need the DMG to tell you that.

 

[Ahrimon]

So many good example of ways to spend gold. But they all have one underlying theme in common, a campaign. For the beer and pretzel style of game where people get together, raid a dungeon, spend their gold outside of the game, then get together for the next game there is no real outlet for that gold. Yes you could say that you've bought a castle, but it really doesn't matter to the game at all. That style of game is something that 5e doesn't support out of the gate (from what we've seen so far). It's not my cup of tea, but it's a totally valid way to play the game.

For those concerned about prices, I strongly suggest using 2e & 3e prices. Things won't be exact, but it's a start. You probably won't get 100% support for your preferred play style, but not everyone is going to get 100% support. The game is a 90% solution in order to keep everything light and flexible. That remaining 10% has to come from the group when you want to stray from simplistic beauty of the system.

The game has shifted back towards it's roots, and that means that some play styles will need to be bolstered by the group & community.

 

[Pickles JG]

There's plenty for a "not-king" to spend money on. It means having to actually keep track of your gold and your belongings. Not just "I walk into a store and drop a sack on the counter and walk out with me hand picked magic item(s)." 5e does not assume that is possible. It is not part of the construction of the very framework of the system. Period. End.

If you are NOT interested in crafting items, building castles, administering domains and/or raising armies (at least some soldiers needs to gets paid y'all!), then there are prices for food, drink and accommodation, at a variety of luxury levels. Are you scraping by cuz your character is a greedy git and wants to have as much gold on him as possible for some imagined/future "retirement"? Are you living high on the hog? You're not building a castle/stronghold/homebase/hideout? Fine. Where are you sleeping every night you aren't on the road? What are you eating/drinking? There's #1. That's uses gold.

The non-king adventurer still needs to get around. Mounts. They cost...a lot. They need to be fed, watered and housed. That uses gold. Even if you're so uber-kewl to have special mounts (like griffons or dragons) they have some cost associated to their upkeep (hell, your dragon mount might actually insist on getting paid, himself, to add to his own hidden hoard). Carts? Wagons? Wheels break, axles break, they get filled with arrow holes or burned to ash by incoming fireballs. Gotta fix it or get a new one. That uses gold.

Henchmen/hirelings/retainers/trainees/etc... You're the uber-kewlz adventurer. You don't carry yer own stinkin' torch! Who's cooking your meals? Who's oiling your armor? Who's grooming and watering your mounts? You need some "nobody's" [alternately, fun well-developed npc's] to do your grunt work. Maybe a small entourage of low level bodyguard fighters, an advisor cleric or mage or lower level spellcasters to handle the day-to-day ritual casting, a few extra rogues to go set off...er...I mean, search for and disarm traps. "Followers", as we'll collectively call them here, whichever term is used, at least some of them will require payment. They need to be fed, watered, housed and [in most cases] equipped. That uses gold.

When was the last time your had your shield, armor or weapons cleaned up/repaired? You don't have a stronghold. No dwarven weaponsmith on retainer? Gotta find someone with the know how to do it for you. That uses gold. If tracking damage to shields and armor isn't your game-style-thing, fine. Instead of tracking it, it just, one day, is unusable and instead of repair, you need to buy new. Either way, it uses gold.

"Incidentals": Your arrows, your spell components, holy water and oil flasks, iron pitons, more oil and/or candles for the lamps/lanterns, torches, grapple hooks (that you can't always recover), healer's kits, and other equipment that may or may not be crucial or used every day/all the time, but you do -over time- use it up. Stuff's gotta be bought as you continue on the path of the non-king adventurer. Track it, piece by piece, or don't and just say "the monthly 'stuff' bill, assuming no special items, is X much. Deduct it." That uses gold.

So, between what's in the PHB and what it seems will be in the DMG, there is SCADS to spend your gold on.

Now, you will tell us how you don't play "that way" and/or don't want to do any of that. So none of that counts and the system is still faulty -because see my previous post.

The DMG isn't giving you alternate options? Yeah. It is. Crafting items, building castles, and running businesses (and other "downtime" subsystems that I don't remember atm). So yes. The DMG does give you stuff to do with your gold...as the PHB already has.

If none of that is acceptable...what do want people to tell you? Go play the system and way you want to. *shrug* 5e's not going to stop you.

As has been pointed out may times, if 5e's core assumptions are not what you need to have "fun", then change them and play how you want. No one's going to stop you. But you can't then whine that 5e "isn't doing it 'right'" or is somehow a flawed system because when you allowed easily purchasable magic items with set-in-stone prices the game imploded/fell apart/got too OP/nothing was a challenge/etc...etc...ad infinitum. That's not 5e's fault or problem.

All this has been said before by others so I randomly quoted this one.

Yeah none of that is actually fun. Ale & whores are more rewarding in real life than in games (unlike being regularly beaten unconscious). Why run a business? Either you get more useless money or you lose it or it's a bunch of adventure hooks, which is grand but not really related to having money. I can do accounts at work if that's what I want.

I want a game about adventuring not accounting, running a business or regime or a mercenary company. Those games I can play with my euro-playing buddies, I do not need or want D&D for that.

I agree you don't need magic item shops to have fun but unlike 1e which gave xp for cash & 3e & 4e with their magic item economies 5e has no in game benefits for (vast amounts of) money.

I would rather have far less money floating around than there is in the published adventures but since I am playing a FR game & my players are complaining about lacking anything to spend money on (including mundane stuff) I will probably let them buy (commission) magic items. They will need a ship for their next adventure though (assuming they take the bait) so that will eat some funds.

As for equipment not being baked into the numbers. Well however much they say it it does not make it true. A party with +3 weapons & armour will be far more dangerous than one with none not even considering the presence of monsters with resistance or immunity. If you are par +/- one "+" then you will be pretty much fine - the randomness will dwarf the differences. Which is the same as in 3e & 4e. If you try to fight demons without magic weapons than you are screwed as usual.

Afterall what is CR "An appropriately equipped and well-rested party of four adventurers should be able to defeat a monster that has a challenge rating equal to its level without suffering any deaths."

Edit: I meant to add that I don't really care if WOTC are not living up to their promises of delivering modularity or bounded accuracy. They were never going to provide a game that was all things to all players (at the same time) as they kept saying. I find the game fun as it is so its good enough for me. If it's not for you play something else or change it.