D&D 5E If you had to choose between Sorcerer bonus spells or expanded

[Henry]

The sorcerer is in a weird place anyway with 5e -- its original reason to exist has been completely subsumed by every spellcasting class! I kind of agree with [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] , more spells of any stripe aren't going to fix it, it needs to do more with its themes and metamagic. Just changing to restore spell points on short rest, and giving more metamagics would give an enormous boost that is really needed. In three years of play in my games no one has given the vanilla sorcerer a second look, yet wizards, druids, clerics, and bards abound.

 

[Lost Soul]

Totally disagree with sorcerer getting more spells known.

I find sorcerers way too similar to wizards already. If anything, I'd like to see the sorcerer taken in a much bolder direction with more distinguishing features, more distinguishing spellcasting, and a more unique spell list.

IME, I've found most players running sorcerers have a more specific character concept in mind – i.e. wanting to play a "storm mage" or a "fire mage." It has come up enough that I've wondered if making a sorcerer like a cross between a 3e domain-based mage & the 5e mystic might be more interesting.

The problem with that approach is that the monster manual invalidates certain builds (devils immune to fire. Certain golems get immunity to certain spells). You end up have to give them breach immunity which makes them superior to other casters in this regard.

 

[Bupp]

For sorcerers in my game I use the spell point variant from the DMG.

I add the sorcery points to the spell points, and make it one pool, called sorcery points. PHB sorcerers can pretty much exchange sorcery points for spell slots (and vice versa) anyway, so it reduces bookkeeping to just combine them.

To make them stand out I allow sorcerers to overchannel. For spells with an "at higher level" effect, sorcerers can cast them at a level above what they would have spell slots for, as long as they pay the cost in spell points. They can only gain one additional spell slot of 6th-9th level thru overchannel. This lets them "go nova" a couple times a day.

 

[Quickleaf]

The problem with that approach is that the monster manual invalidates certain builds (devils immune to fire. Certain golems get immunity to certain spells). You end up have to give them breach immunity which makes them superior to other casters in this regard.

It's solvable, just requires some design creativity and playtesting.

For example, I have powerful NPC flame mages who can strip away fire resistance. The fire resistance applies against the initial attack/spell, and then is lost after that. This is an example of "yes, but" design - just one example of the sort of design thinking that could go into making more tightly themed sorcerer work.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

Personally I don't think sorcerers need more spells known. What they need instead is a couple of the following things:
1) "more" spell points (short rest recharge or an ability to regain them at least once per long rest.
2) More metamagic options, both known and to choose from
3) Archetypes that do NOT use spell points. They already are needed for enough stuff. (Albeit full short rest recharge of spell points would make this step unnecessary)
4) The ability to pick from ANY spell in the game (except maybe the "named" spells i.e. Mortenkainen's sword, mansion, etc.). If they are beings made of freaking magic, why do they have such a limited list to pick from? The player should work with the DM and pick spells that fit a theme rather than be pigeonholed into a set list.

 

[Caliban]

I've toyed with the idea of allowing a Sorcerer to regain half their proficiency modifier in Sorcery Points on a short rest (i.e. 1 point at levels 2-8, 2 points at levels 9-16, and 3 points at 17-19, and 4 at lvl 20 from the sorc capstone).

 

[ScuroNotte]

The Sorcerer needs a complete overall with respect to archetypes, other abilities, and not such a tax on sorcery points for spell slots, metamagic, and abilities. I did not intend to start another discussion on what sorcerers needed to be more enjoyable to role play as well as making them on par with other classes. My main objective was curiosity in what players preferred, more spells known or archetypes (domain) spells.

Though I have to admit I agree with others who have posted that the class needs an overhaul

 

[ScuroNotte]

For sorcerers in my game I use the spell point variant from the DMG.

I add the sorcery points to the spell points, and make it one pool, called sorcery points. PHB sorcerers can pretty much exchange sorcery points for spell slots (and vice versa) anyway, so it reduces bookkeeping to just combine them.

To make them stand out I allow sorcerers to overchannel. For spells with an "at higher level" effect, sorcerers can cast them at a level above what they would have spell slots for, as long as they pay the cost in spell points. They can only gain one additional spell slot of 6th-9th level thru overchannel. This lets them "go nova" a couple times a day.

I wholeheartedly agree that the Sorcerer should have automatically been given the spell point variant option, which would have made them different from other classes, as the warlock with its spell slots. This would have also affected multi-classing as in the warlock class.
In addition, spell points would have eliminated the loss of sorcery points when you "sold" spell slots for sorcery points at a loss, then having to "buy" spell slots at a premium.


We made the same modification as you by using the spell point variant and added sorcery points

The other changes we made were
1. We allow the sorcerer to create/cast 2 6th level spells at level 19 and 2 7th level spells at level 20
2. Added more metamagic known and created more (homebrew) metamagic
3. Allowed recovery of 1 sorcery point after each short rest starting at 2nd level and increase by 1 every 4 levels.
4. Added more spells to the sorcerer list from the wizard spell list
5. Increased the flat number known to 22. It made no sense that a 1/3 level caster who uses spells to complement its core abilities would know as many as a primary caster who's spells are their core ability.
6. Archetype spells were offered as an expanded list as the warlock archetypes

 

[Bitbrain]

Reply to OP.
Bonus spells based on the sorcerous origin would be my preference.

 

[TwoSix]

I favor abilities that add depth to the sorcerer's abilities, rather than breadth. Part of the fun of the sorcerer is tailoring your limited spell list to your circumstances. My sorcerer just leveled to 15 last session (I've been playing this character from level 4), which means I'll gain my 14th spell known. Deciding what spell to choose and, just as importantly, whether to forget a spell to make a second choice, is the most fun part of the character from a game mechanics perspective.

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing some sorcerer subclasses with more interesting abilities, or some sorcerer specific feats, or some new metamagic abilities. My ideal "sorcerer" would be more like a hybrid of warlock and sorcerer, with metamagic being one type of invocation choice from a greater pool, and sorcery points (maybe 1 per 2 levels) being a short-rest recharge. The spellcasting base of the class should still be long rest driven with an small pool of known spells.