If You're "Permanently" Boycotting WotC, They're Not Going To Listen To You

[Dannyalcatraz]

Why are you simping for Wizards? They don't care about you other than extracting as much money as they can from you.

Mod Note:

Can the insults, please.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I kind of don't see the point of ranting about stuff if nothing they can do can win you back.

Demanding punishment for something that would not have affected you, and did not go through seems overly harsh as well.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

This post was inspired by this thread on D&D Beyond, but instead of just linking that and leaving, I'll add a bit.

In recent OGL threads, I have seen probably dozens of posters, many of them regulars on this site, claiming that they will never buy anything from WotC ever again, even if they "fix" the 1.1 OGL. And while I can sympathize and see how it may be tempting to say "screw them, they're not getting a single penny out of me now", I staunchly believe that this mindset is not just unhelpful, but actively harmful to the goal that the community should be united on: holding WotC accountable and prevent them from undoing the great effects the original OGL has had on the community over the past 2 decades.

Because this is a negotiation. Clearly, the public backlash had a large enough effect for them to vow to remove almost all of the negative parts of the leaked 1.1 OGL. They saw that the public backlash could have lost them a lot of money, and are walking back from some of the more objectionable parts of the 1.1 OGL. However, if you have vowed to never buy anything from WotC ever again because of the leaked 1.1 OGL, you have given up your bargaining chip. WotC is a for-profit company and has no incentive to make the changes you want if your money isn't on the table. You're just using your money as a weapon for spite. And, again, I understand that. I understand being angry and disappointed about the leaked 1.1 OGL. Trust me, I am too. I've written and sold content under the 1.1 OGL. The leaked version of the 1.1 OGL would have been very, very bad for my future as a 5e freelancer and I'm pissed that WotC would dare to consider changing it in a way that could hurt me. I'm still not satisfied with what they've said the new version of the 1.1 OGL will contain.

And that's the point. If you're not satisfied with the current plan of what the 1.1 OGL will contain or the fact that it will supersede the older versions of the OGL, don't give up your only bargaining chip. Keep your money "hostage". Make demands. Only agree to buy their stuff if a satisfactory arrangement is made. Declaring war against WotC and trying to hurt them because you're angry does not help. It's like a union going on strike while also saying that they're all going to quit no matter what changes their employers make. You cannot demand change without the power to make a difference.

Note: I'm not telling you to buy from WotC if you weren't already. I'm just saying that the people that used to and have said that they won't in the future no matter what because of the leaked OGL are hurting the community's ability to negotiate with WotC. Don't boycott WotC D&D unless you're willing to stop the boycott if they make the right decision.

To the OP:

First of all: Do you really think that Wizards has the computing capacity and manpower to sift through exactly how many message board posters and D&D Beyond cancellers are stating that they are "ditching Wizards for good" vs. how many are demanding specific redresses such as "don't de-authorize the OGL1.0"? Do you really think that Wizards then parses their behavior on those (non-existent) data percentiles?

Secondly: If I were the manager of a store, and our store inflicted a serious breach of trust, and one customer said to me: "I'm not coming back to this store." And another customer said: "I'm willing to come back if you will make this right. And here's how."
While I would appreciate the opportunity to make things right, as the manager (and as a non-sociopathic human being), I would be 'affected' by both responses, and I would strive to prevent similarly harmful incidents from occurring, regardless of exactly how the customer responded. Because even in the first case, obviously there are other present-day and future customers who would also "not come back" if we were to engage in that same kind of breach.

 

[Scribe]

Secondly: If I were the manager of a store, and our store inflicted a serious breach of trust, and one customer said to me: "I'm not coming back to this store." And another customer said: "I'm willing to come back if you will make this right. And here's how."

As a manager, I would think 'man, that first guy is probably going to run his mouth and his experience will network' and thats the guy you want to correct for, if at all possible.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

As a manager, I would think 'man, that first guy is probably going to run his mouth and his experience will network' and thats the guy you want to correct for, if at all possible.

Well, Wizards knows where to find me. I have a mega-list of amendatory actions they can make. I'll let y'all know if they contact me.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What reality do you live in?

Mod Note:

Your post was fine up until that last line. Stingers in the tail aren’t particularly helpful in civil discourse, especially when the topic of discussion is controversial.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

If nobody will forgive you, there's no reason not to stop doing wrong.

If everyone will forgive you, there's no reason not to start doing wrong in the first place.

Stop dumping on those of us who never forgive.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I kind of don't see the point of ranting about stuff if nothing they can do can win you back.

I see the point. I mean, these people are making public declarations to try and convince other people to join them, even if they don't say that. It's taking action in what limited way you can.

Demanding punishment for something that would not have affected you, and did not go through seems overly harsh as well.

I thoroughly disagree with the presentation of this. Killing the 3PP market would have affected a lot of people, even if only indirectly. Even I, someone who is largely a Paizo customer now, is affected by this because of what Wizards could potentially do.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I see the point. I mean, these people are making public declarations to try and convince other people to join them, even if they don't say that. It's taking action in what limited way you can.



I thoroughly disagree with the presentation of this. Killing the 3PP market would have affected a lot of people, even if only indirectly. Even I, someone who is largely a Paizo customer now, is affected by this because of what Wizards could potentially do.

It would not have killed the 3pp market.

 

[Scribe]

I kind of don't see the point of ranting about stuff if nothing they can do can win you back.

You know how there are people who bring up 4e in completely unrelated threads? For and against?
You know how there are people who will fight to the death over the last Star Wars Trilogy? For and against?

Within 40K, there are 3 events, names, or rule sets, off the top of my head, that people will, 20+ years later, bring up and fight over. My son was not yet born before a few of these, and hes now out of high school.

To put it as bluntly as possible, and I'm not disparaging anyone here, we are a bunch of nerds. We fight over things, WELL past the date of relevance. We get discussions locked, we generate further discussion, we get heated, and even at our most reasonable, we find things that we disagree on so completely, there can never ever be resolution.

And yet we persist.

You know what Wizbro has done in the last week?

Created a whole bunch of people who will be around in 10, 20, 30 years, and will STILL be poisoning the well.

So what can Wizbro do? I think Penny Arcade put it best.

Dungeons & Dragons isn't really a brand - it's a culture, which is a million times better than a brand. And it's not like that doesn't have direct implications for the bottom line: D&D is on its most successful iteration ever precisely because it's a universal touchstone. I've heard - you know, from you - that streaming and podcasts are to thank for that. I can't really make heads or tails of your apology, but let me say this: you have entered treacherous waters entirely of your own volition. Literally just turn around, and walk back out.

They may not win people back, they wont lose everyone though, there are people declaring their eternal attachment to D&D as we speak, who are in some state of mourning over a brand name, and thats fine, I get it, I went through the same with GW recently.

What Wizbro can do, is turn around, and walk back out, and not give nerds, a reason to still be talking about this in 30 years.

 

[overgeeked]

You know how there are people who bring up 4e in completely unrelated threads? For and against?
You know how there are people who will fight to the death over the last Star Wars Trilogy? For and against?

Within 40K, there are 3 events, names, or rule sets, off the top of my head, that people will, 20+ years later, bring up and fight over. My son was not yet born before a few of these, and hes now out of high school.

To put it as bluntly as possible, and I'm not disparaging anyone here, we are a bunch of nerds. We fight over things, WELL past the date of relevance. We get discussions locked, we generate further discussion, we get heated, and even at our most reasonable, we find things that we disagree on so completely, there can never ever be resolution.

And yet we persist.

You know what Wizbro has done in the last week?

Created a whole bunch of people who will be around in 10, 20, 30 years, and will STILL be poisoning the well.

So what can Wizbro do? I think Penny Arcade put it best.



They may not win people back, they wont lose everyone though, there are people declaring their eternal attachment to D&D as we speak, who are in some state of mourning over a brand name, and thats fine, I get it, I went through the same with GW recently.

What Wizbro can do, is turn around, and walk back out, and not give nerds, a reason to still be talking about this in 30 years.

I don't necessarily "like" this, but it's 100% true. Well said.

We are a bunch of pointlessly argumentative nerds.

 

[Scribe]

I don't necessarily "like" this, but it's 100% true. Well said.

We are a bunch of pointlessly argumentative nerds.

If only our powers could be harnessed for good...

 

[overgeeked]

If only our powers could be harnessed for good...

Here's to hoping they are being harnessed for good in bringing WotC down a peg and getting the ORC established.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

You know how there are people who bring up 4e in completely unrelated threads? For and against?

Yeah but I don't agree with that either.

 

[Scribe]

Yeah but I don't agree with that either.

You dont have to. The point is, the actions of the company have created a sentiment that leads to such expression.

Winning people back is nice, they will do so for some.

Backing people off the edge of 'I want this company to burn.' is another step in that process that they should take, because well, we are nerds and going off the rails, over the top, for decades, over trivial naughty word, is what we do.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

In response to the general thrust of this thread:

Umbran asked what actions would it take for WOTC to 'make it right' for me. Here ya go!...​

 

[Bix and Box]

In recent OGL threads, I have seen probably dozens of posters, many of them regulars on this site, claiming that they will never buy anything from WotC ever again, even if they "fix" the 1.1 OGL. And while I can sympathize and see how it may be tempting to say "screw them, they're not getting a single penny out of me now", I staunchly believe that this mindset is not just unhelpful, but actively harmful to the goal that the community should be united on...

So, two and a half weeks later, a lot has changed.

How do you feel about this?

Do you think WotC might have caved because of the threat of permanent boycotts?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

So, two and a half weeks later, a lot has changed.

How do you feel about this?

Do you think WotC might have caved because of the threat of permanent boycotts?

I believe that WotC caved because they would have lost a lot more money if they hadn't. So, yeah, I stand by my position. I don't think WotC would be as quick to correct course if they didn't think they could salvage the situation.

 

[Dustin_00]

As a DM and a player, the new OGL wasn't of much interest.

As a consumer that saw 1,500 smaller companies being bullied by 1 company, I'm left asking: do I support the monolith, or do I want a vibrant, diverse ecosystem.

One or 1,500?

I'm not mad at WotC. I'm indifferent. There's no reason to support the monolith. Why would anybody? With each edition, they burn all the digital support for the previous edition to the ground. Okay, I'm not completely indifferent.

But I AM excited to support 1,500 other companies that are all gathered under one banner where they promise not to bully each other with legal action.

I do see people asking "what do you want from One DnD" and those threads and now I do realize I want something: I want ALL of the previous edition character builders and other software tools back. I would literally pay money so I could open my character sheets from my 3.x games again.

 

[Scribe]

Seems Penny Arcade had it right all along.