If You're "Permanently" Boycotting WotC, They're Not Going To Listen To You

[Synthil]

I also think there are peole boycotting hasbro and buy things from companies that are actually doing real harm to people... like every smart phone producer... many food companies and a lot of cheap cloth companies..

A big difference is that you need food, clothes and (to a lesser degree) a smartphone to live. As such you have to support some of these companies. You don't need RPGs, though.

 

[Scribe]

That's literally what I was saying to do in the OP. It needs to be a quid pro quo. "I will leave forever, unless you give me what I want". The whole point of the OP.

The first sentence of your post is a quid pro quo. That's a type of negotiation. WotC might not think of it as a negotiation, but it is. If they get enough backlash from the community, they normally try to undo that thing (Hadozee, 1.1 OGL, etc).

Negotiate, in this sense, is to have some give and take.

Wizards doesnt want to give. They simply want to take. This was clear.

We (the amorphous undefined 'we' of the community) cannot provide any nuance to our message, as we are too small, and too different. So the answer is "No, back up and dont even try again."

This is not a negotiation by any means.

The 1.0 OGL needs to be left alone, and the reality is that the only thing that really matters here (besides $$) to Wizards, is that the 5e SRD is exposed via 1.0 OGL, and could be "Pathfinder-ed".

If we really want to get down to it, it kind of already has with Level Up.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Wizards doesnt want to give. They simply want to take. This was clear.

They already "gave". They walked back some of the planned changes to the OGL. Sure, they can try and PR retcon it into a "oh, that was just a draft, we were never going to release that as the final version" kinda thing, but most of the community doesn't seem to be buying that. They've already loosened the restrictions of the 1.1 OGL, probably because of community backlash.

 

[Dausuul]

In theory this is all accurate, but it’s not like WotC can tell the difference between someone who cancels their DnDB subscription with the intent to resubscribe under certain conditions and someone who cancels their sub with no intention of resubscribing ever. All they see is people are mad about the OGL and they’re hemorrhaging subscriptions.

Exactly. Who really thinks Wizards execs are sitting down and reading each individual message from the canceled subs? To the extent there is any negotiation going on here, it's with the community, not with you personally. Your contribution is one more canceled sub with the text "OGL" somewhere in the explanation box.

And if your particular message does somehow end up on a PowerPoint slide in front of a bunch of executives, who knows how they'll take it? The person who says "I'm willing to come back if you do X, Y, and Z" could make them think "Oh, the fans aren't that mad, we'll just do something sort of like X and it'll be fine," while the person who says "I'm through with Hasbro forever!" could result in "Uh-oh, the fans are really mad, we may not be able to ride this out after all."

Or they might take it the exact opposite. No way to know. The point is that you, D&D Fan #15882, are not sitting in a room with Cynthia Williams and Chris Cocks, engaged in a give-and-take discussion. You are generating a data point in a chart somewhere. Don't worry too much about the exact shade of red you paint it.

 

[Scribe]

They already "gave". They walked back some of the planned changes to the OGL. Sure, they can try and PR retcon it into a "oh, that was just a draft, we were never going to release that as the final version" kinda thing, but most of the community doesn't seem to be buying that. They've already loosened the restrictions of the 1.1 OGL, probably because of community backlash.

No no no.

That is not giving. That is withdrawing your plan to take.

The root of it, the prize, is 5e tied to the 1.0 OGL. The more we look at what all has been said, the more clear it gets.

 

[WarDriveWorley]

No no no.

That is not giving. That is withdrawing your plan to take.

The root of it, the prize, is 5e tied to the 1.0 OGL. The more we look at what all has been said, the more clear it gets.

This!

WOTC was going to remove something they provided and received severe backlash from it. They stepped back from doing that action.

That's not a give, it's a concession or retreat

 

[Scribe]

I mean I dont know if you have Level Up @Levistus's_Leviathan but I got it day 1, and if its 'compatible with 5e' its 'compatible with 3pp for 5e' and I just cracked it open to look again, and yep there's the rules in there as a complete game.

I dont think one would even need 5e Core. So....

That to me, is actually starting to look like the real issue here, hate to say it.

 

[Xyxox]

Note: I'm not telling you to buy from WotC if you weren't already. I'm just saying that the people that used to and have said that they won't in the future no matter what because of the leaked OGL are hurting the community's ability to negotiate with WotC. Don't boycott WotC D&D unless you're willing to stop the boycott if they make the right decision.

I had gone back to 5E in August, bought a year subscription to D&D Beyond, and spent at least $100/month on WotC products until the leak. I will never buy from them again because I can never trust them again.

I firmly believe that in their future digital product, microtransactions will become a "pay to win" gimic and Dungeon Masters will not be able to alter it on their VTT.

The ultimate goal will be AI DMs and loot boxes. Everybody is a player and the DMs are controlled by WotC algorithms. Won't happen in 2024, but that must be the eventual goal, make it work like some weird MMO.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm not boycotting "no matter what." I'm simply saying that if they blow up or even try to blow up the OGL 1.0a, I won't be giving them anymore money. I am negotiating!! They have an option to get more of my money.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I firmly believe that in their future digital product, microtransactions will become a "pay to win" gimic and Dungeon Masters will not be able to alter it on their VTT.

So part of the reason that you're boycotting them is because of a hypothetical situation that they haven't done yet. That's incredibly dumb. Boycott them if they do that thing. Boycotting them because they could is just ridiculous. Tons of companies could do bad things in the future. But I'm not going to boycott Marvel because they could start selling NFTs of their characters. That would be stupid. If they do start selling them, then I would start boycotting them.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I mean I dont know if you have Level Up @Levistus's_Leviathan but I got it day 1, and if its 'compatible with 5e' its 'compatible with 3pp for 5e' and I just cracked it open to look again, and yep there's the rules in there as a complete game.

I dont think one would even need 5e Core. So....

That to me, is actually starting to look like the real issue here, hate to say it.

I don't have Level Up.

And, as I said in the OP, if you'd already moved past 5e, good for you. But if you're boycotting WotC eternally because of the OGL 1.1 without giving them a chance to "make up", then you're not helping solve the problem and are potentially making it worse.

 

[Scribe]

I don't have Level Up.

And, as I said in the OP, if you'd already moved past 5e, good for you. But if you're boycotting WotC eternally because of the OGL 1.1 without giving them a chance to "make up", then you're not helping solve the problem and are potentially making it worse.

You are free to believe that. Wizards has made clear who they are. I'm comfortable with my position.

 

[Bacon Bits]

It's not my job to be open to WotC changing my mind. It's WotC job to do things so right and so well that I'm compelled to change my mind.

 

[Xyxox]

So part of the reason that you're boycotting them is because of a hypothetical situation that they haven't done yet. That's incredibly dumb. Boycott them if they do that thing. Boycotting them because they could is just ridiculous. Tons of companies could do bad things in the future. But I'm not going to boycott Marvel because they could start selling NFTs of their characters. That would be stupid. If they do start selling them, then I would start boycotting them.

Wrong, Part of the reason I am done with all WotC purchases is because I don't trust them not to go down the road of the worst things I can imagine after this.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

No no no.

That is not giving. That is withdrawing your plan to take.

The root of it, the prize, is 5e tied to the 1.0 OGL. The more we look at what all has been said, the more clear it gets.

Semantics. They walked back something that they were planning to do. Removing a negative and adding a positive have the same effect in this situation. The point is that the community can use our money as a tool to demand proper action from WotC. They've already shown steps of doing that. It doesn't matter whether it's "giving" or "removing your plan to take". It's a net positive from what we had before the backlash.

The threat of lost money (with the option of not losing that money if they do more net positive actions) is how we can force them to improve. Telling them to screw themselves doesn't help anything.

 

[Scribe]

Semantics, right.

Get back to me when 1.0 OGL is fully protected, irrevocable, and Wizards sends me a pony.

I completely disagree with you that 'giving' or 'removing our plan to take' doesnt matter. Intent matters. It speaks to the truth of what this company is.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

It's not my job to be open to WotC changing my mind. It's WotC job to do things so right and so well that I'm compelled to change my mind.

No one is saying that it's anyone's job. You are not compelled to do anything. There is no responsibility. You're just not helpful. You're not benefiting the thing we should be working towards. Yes, WotC should do things that are good. But boycotting them for a purpose can help ensure that they do. Boycotting them for spite is worse than useless.

 

[theCourier]

Funny thing, there probably are people claiming they now will never buy things from Hasbro/Wotc again who have not bought from wotc for a while now.

I also think there are peole boycotting hasbro and buy things from companies that are actually doing real harm to people... like every smart phone producer... many food companies and a lot of cheap cloth companies...

Don't be that guy, seriously.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Get back to me when 1.0 OGL is fully protected, irrevocable, and Wizards sends me a pony.

And you know how you can help make that happen? By boycotting them so that they do that and telling others to do the same. Boycotting them because you hate them doesn't accomplish anything.

I completely disagree with you that 'giving' or 'removing our plan to take' doesnt matter. Intent matters. It speaks to the truth of what this company is.

The "intent" is to make money. Capitalism incentivizes maximizing profits. We can use that against them. But if you don't give them the option to maximize profits "the good way", they will choose the bad way.

 

[Scribe]

And you know how you can help make that happen? By boycotting them so that they do that and telling others to do the same. Boycotting them because you hate them doesn't accomplish anything.

The "intent" is to make money. Capitalism incentivizes maximizing profits. We can use that against them. But if you don't give them the option to maximize profits "the good way", they will choose the bad way.

I'm sure you mean well, but no. I'm not going to 'negotiate' with a company that has demonstrated the behavior of Wizards.

I will absolutely let them know on the next Survey what it would take for me to...not openly campaign against them further, and it will involve a pony.

After which, I will get my Beyond account deleted.