Ignoble Death by Ray of Frost!?!

[jontherev]

If you use a Split Ray to attack two targets, how is Sneak Attack affected? Do you choose one target to receive SA damage before making the RTA roll? After? Do you roll damage plus SA damage for the spell, then split it between the two?

-Hyp.

I'd do it the same as with the orb spells. The first ray/orb gets sneak attack (so a miss or successful spell resistance would negate the possibility of getting SA with this spell), the second doesn't. You choose before rolling. I think of it like you are aiming the first ray at a vital spot, but don't care where the second ray hits your foe.

 

[Hypersmurf]

With shuriken or Manyshot, it's not an issue - everything's targetted at the same creature. If no shuriken hit, no SA damage. If one or more shuriken hit, the creature takes one lot of SA damage, regardless of which shuriken hit.

Huh. I just checked the FAQ, and I have to retract this statement.

Only the first shuriken in a volley is eligible for SA or WS bonus damage. I thought it was the first one that hit.

Consequently, I agree fully with jontherev's interpretation or orbs and split rays.

-Hyp.

 

[Clumsy Bob]

The ray of frost arguement appeared in last nights game. Our Arcane Trickster sneak attacked a ray of frost on a fire giant for 15 points of damage, then doubled it! Our argument was that the sneak attack damage shouldn't have been doubled.
Is this correct?

Bob

 

[Hypersmurf]

Our Arcane Trickster sneak attacked a ray of frost on a fire giant for 15 points of damage, then doubled it! Our argument was that the sneak attack damage shouldn't have been doubled.Bob

"A successful sneak attack with a weaponlike spell deals extra damage according to your sneak attack ability, of the same type as the spell deals. For example, a 10th level rogue who makes a successful sneak attack with a Melf's Acid Arrow deals 2d4 points of acid damage, plus an extra 5d6 points of acid damage."

-Hyp.

 

[Apok]

The ray of frost arguement appeared in last nights game. Our Arcane Trickster sneak attacked a ray of frost on a fire giant for 15 points of damage, then doubled it! Our argument was that the sneak attack damage shouldn't have been doubled.
Is this correct?

Bob

Well, if you mean it shouldn't have been doubled on a successfull critical hit, you're correct. Extra damage dice aren't multiplied on crits.

Or are you referring to some other means of doubling damage?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Or are you referring to some other means of doubling damage?

Fire giants have the [Fire] subtype, and take double damage from cold.

The Ray of Frost would have dealt 1d3 cold damage, plus Nd6 cold damage from the Sneak Attack, all of which would be doubled for a fire giant.

On a critical, it would take 1d3 doubled twice (x3 in D&D math), + Nd6 doubled once (since the SA damage doesn't double on the crit, but the cold damage does double against the giant).

-Hyp.

 

[Mort]

Fire giants have the [Fire] subtype, and take double damage from cold.

The Ray of Frost would have dealt 1d3 cold damage, plus Nd6 cold damage from the Sneak Attack, all of which would be doubled for a fire giant.

On a critical, it would take 1d3 doubled twice (x3 in D&D math), + Nd6 doubled once (since the SA damage doesn't double on the crit, but the cold damage does double against the giant).

-Hyp.

I don't have the books in front of me at the moment (at work) but isn't the Nd6 sneak attack damage and not cold damage (even if it is from a "cold" source)? As such, it really shouldn't double.

 

[IceBear]

No, I think I remember reading that the sneak attack damage "becomes" the type of the base attack. I think it's mentioned specifically in T&B, but I don't have it here with me.

IceBear

 

[Mort]

No, I think I remember reading that the sneak attack damage "becomes" the type of the base attack. I think it's mentioned specifically in T&B, but I don't have it here with me.

IceBear

Wow, that would make an Arcane Trickster with Energy Substitution feats just nasty.

 

[LokiDR]

Wow, that would make an Arcane Trickster with Energy Substitution feats just nasty.

Yes it is the same type of damage. Weapon-like spells in tome and blood. Energy sub is only amazing if you fight creatures with an energy subtype, and you have the right energy sub. It is an interesting concept though.