Ignoble Death by Ray of Frost!?!

There are several feats out there that will allow you to add a skill to your list as class if it was cross class and cross class if it was excluded.

If you take any of those feats then it would be easy to create this character.

Take 1 level in rogue.
Then take 8 wizard levels.
Then 1 level in assasin.
Now take all 10 levels in arcane trickster.

Book, you are a 18th level caster.

wolff96 said:


The problem is that you need 7 ranks in Decipher Script. You have two levels in classes that give access to Decipher Script -- Rogue and Assassin.

Maximum ranks in a skill that you can only get for two levels is five.

You'd need at least two more levels in either Rogue or Assassin.

Other than that, it's an ingenious build. Nice try.
 

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What hong said.

As the original poster of this thread admitted, the Ray of Frost angle is not really the problem. Any roguish or wizard or rogue/wiz combo can be very effective with Improved Invis and Fly if the DM doesn't know how to deal with them.

I really don't see the Ray of Frost as all that different from a throw dagger or shuriken with respect to sneak attacks. Besides, relying on magic for your sneak attacks isn't going to cut it once you start seeing monsters with SR.

Ray of Frost for sneak attacks is more a style issue than a balance issue.
 


Twinned spells do get SA for each spell. Read the description of the feat. It allows for the spell to be effectively cast twice at the same time. Each spell would be resolved separately meaning separate sneak attack damage. If the feat modified the spell so it was only one spell that was being cast only one set of sneak attack damage would apply. However, because it is two separate spells, sneak attack damage applies twice.
 


Gaiden said:
Twinned spells do get SA for each spell. Read the description of the feat. It allows for the spell to be effectively cast twice at the same time.

That does not imply sneak attack damage twice, any more than making two attack rolls for two shuriken with the one action means you apply sneak attack damage twice.
 

oh yeah,

arcane tricksters can most definitely layeth on the smack.

surprise round with initiative:

surprise round

split twinned quickened ray of frost
contingency for haste when catch someone by surprise
split twinned repeated ray of frost

round 1

split twinned quickened ray of frost
split twinned ray of frost
split twinned ray of frost

total of ((1d3/2)+5d6)*24 dmg = 468
 

ok Hong,

Look at it this way, let's use a different case. Say you use repeat spell so that the same spell goes off one round later. According to your argument you would not get sneak attack on the second casting of the spell the next round when clearly that is a separate action, nevermind a separate attack - it occurs an entire round later. Twinned spell simply lets the repeated spell function in the same round.

It is a very different case than from shuriken because shuriken is one ATTACK, where this is a spell (that simply requires an attack roll). If the feat allowed you to make a second attack as part of the one spell, I would concede your point. However, it is a second spell, and as indicated above, a separate second spell. - exactly like quicken except that it does not count against your quickened spell for the round and has to be the same spell as the drawback.
 

Gaiden said:

It is a very different case than from shuriken because shuriken is one ATTACK, where this is a spell (that simply requires an attack roll). If the feat allowed you to make a second attack as part of the one spell, I would concede your point. However, it is a second spell, and as indicated above, a separate second spell. - exactly like quicken except that it does not count against your quickened spell for the round and has to be the same spell as the drawback.

Unfortunately your line of thinking relies on a straightforwardness the rules are definitively lacking. Under the core rules as written is was unambiguous that an attack with a three shuriken using one attack action could generate three separate sneak attacks. That has been officially errataed as against he intent of the rules.

Again, here we have one attack action (casting of the spell) generates two separate attacks. So all I can say is that if it walks like a shuriken and talks like a shuriken, it probably is just like a shuriken. It appears to against the intent of the rules to allows two SAs for one Twinned spell even if the letter of the law suggests otherwise.

Bringing in vague arguments relating Twinning to Quickening is not very illuminating. Even if these arguments had technical merit, the fact that free actions are explicitly regulated by DM fiat for balance and common sense reasons as well as a "one quicken spell per round" rule of thumb proves you are building on a foundation of quicksand.
 

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