Ignoble Death by Ray of Frost!?!

[Igarashi]

EUhm... ever tried quickened twinned rays of frost, then a twinned ray of frost and then another twinned ray of frost for 6 rays of frost in 1 round?

Except to utilize a Metamagic feat as a sorcerer requires a full-round action. So, a sorcerer could use a twin and a normal ray, assuming he was hasted.

Edit: oops, I assumed sorcerer, my mistake. (hrmmm, that would be pretty sweet)


P.S. I registered to post this, Hi guys.

 

[hammymchamham]

You can be denied a dex bonus even if you don't have one. That's what happened to this dragon -- the only effect was to allow my touch attack to be a sneak attack.

Daniel

I think thats what I said.....

 

[kigmatzomat]

It's an interesting problem. I understand the logic of the sneak attack. The enemy is denied his DEX, so it's easier for you to hit a soft spot. It seems that, by definition, a sneak attack is an aimed attack that is more difficult than a standard attack, but made possible with no penalty due to the opponent beign denied his DEX.

Well, remember that rogues are trained to do this particular kind of attack. Compare to a fighter: The fighter gets more BAB, applicable in all cases, but has to take a penalty to called shots.

The Rogue has a lower BAB that reduces his general combat ability but, in those situations where his opponent is hindered, he can make called shots at no further penalty.

Since the idea of a touch attack is that aiming is not so necessary as with a standard attack


Ahh, that would be a mistake. It is not that touch attacks require less aiming, it is that physical armors provide no protection against the attack.

In the case of the ray of frost it needs to be aimed as well as an arrow but while an arrow may be deflected by the physical armor of the target, the ray of frost is not so much a frosty snowball as it is a sudden decrease in temperature. So the armor itself freezes as does the flesh beneath it. The location of that attack can be the difference between a few points of frost bite damage or causing an ice-crystal aneurism.

All the touch attacks that deal damage that I can think of are some form of energy attack, whether elemental or negative. The touch attacks that do not deal damage cannot inflict sneak attack damage.

 

[Pielorinho]

I think thats what I said.....

Then I'm confused - and please don't take this as me being snippy -- but what was the point of your post? It sounded like you were correcting something in my example; if that's not what you were doing, how did what you said relate to what I'd said?

I'm afraid I'm being a little hard of thinking this afternoon .

Daniel

 

[RyanL]

Well, remember that rogues are trained to do this particular kind of attack. Compare to a fighter: The fighter gets more BAB, applicable in all cases, but has to take a penalty to called shots.

The Rogue has a lower BAB that reduces his general combat ability but, in those situations where his opponent is hindered, he can make called shots at no further penalty.


Ahh, that would be a mistake. It is not that touch attacks require less aiming, it is that physical armors provide no protection against the attack.

In the case of the ray of frost it needs to be aimed as well as an arrow but while an arrow may be deflected by the physical armor of the target, the ray of frost is not so much a frosty snowball as it is a sudden decrease in temperature. So the armor itself freezes as does the flesh beneath it. The location of that attack can be the difference between a few points of frost bite damage or causing an ice-crystal aneurism.

All the touch attacks that deal damage that I can think of are some form of energy attack, whether elemental or negative. The touch attacks that do not deal damage cannot inflict sneak attack damage.

Guess it depends on whether you interpret touch attacks as automatically going through armor, or as dissipating through the creature when any part of it is touched. I always went with the latter explanation.

-Ryan

 

[incognito]

To clarify for those who are giving "Hypersmurf" a hard tme for his build.

As soon as you take even one level of a class with decipher script, it becomes a class skill with max ranks = to your chracter level +3.

So a Level 8 wizard who takes 1 level of Rogue could potentially take 12 ranks of decipher script if he/she had enough skill points.

You could easily have this build with a number of different combinations.

Note that if you gain a level that does NOT have the skill on it's class list, you must pay the cross class price ( 2 pts per rank)

 

[Hypersmurf]

To clarify for those who are giving "Hypersmurf" a hard tme for his build.

As soon as you take even one level of a class with decipher script, it becomes a class skill with max ranks = to your chracter level +3.

No, they're right - I screwed up.

What you say is true for non-exclusive skills. Decipher Script is an exclusive skill. The max rank is figured as the total of class levels in classes with access to the skill, +3... not character level +3 like it is for other skills.

-Hyp.

 

[hammymchamham]

Then I'm confused - and please don't take this as me being snippy -- but what was the point of your post? It sounded like you were correcting something in my example; if that's not what you were doing, how did what you said relate to what I'd said?

I'm afraid I'm being a little hard of thinking this afternoon .

Daniel

Not snippy at all, I was just wondering if I missed some dragon with a higher than 10 Dexterity, thats all

 

[Grog]

EUhm... ever tried quickened twinned rays of frost, then a twinned ray of frost and then another twinned ray of frost for 6 rays of frost in 1 round?

What's a twinned ray of frost?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

EUhm... ever tried quickened twinned rays of frost, then a twinned ray of frost and then another twinned ray of frost for 6 rays of frost in 1 round?

It is somewhat questionable that twinned rays get two sets of sneak attack dice for the exact same reason that shurikens get only one.

Nonetheless, even if I accept your ruling on this for the sake of argument, the damage you get out of this perfect setup won't get you into the smackdown range. Besides it is still Cold damage, and easily negated by Protection from Elements, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, or inherent immunity (e.g. undead). Even Mirror Image, Blur, Entropic Shield, Displacement, or a lousy Obscuring Mist will cause problems.

IMO, the answer to Hasted + Invisible adventurers is to fog the area, and either retreat or hand-to-hand. Ranged sneak attack tactics suddenly look pretty worthless and invisibility is not such a big deal when everyone has concealment.

BTW, Dragons have Blindsight. It ain't so easy to get a sneak attack on a dragon.