D&D 5E I'll make my own Fifth Edition.

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Actually, to get into the details, I'd be just as happy, if instead of Public Domain, 5E were to be released under a specific license which bars money from being charged for the content...which would permanently de-commoditize the contents...as long as the license still allowed for money to be freely gifted. Free Culture has to have monetary support, it's just that the receiving of the thing is clearly separated from whether that particular person donated or not. This is the way cultural services, such as traditional wisdom traditions and recovery meetings, are funded. RPG Now would need a Donate button.

All of which I like in theory, although my concern is that I still want artists and other creative types to make a living off of their work. Donations only may be difficult.

Perhaps kickstarter is a trend towards the direction your advocating, though. People are essentially investing in creative properties that they enjoy.

I do wonder, though, if what you are talking about is simply too advanced for the larger social-cultural-economic context that we live in, and thus too out of sync. I mean, I would love to see all artists and musicians offer their work freely (by donation) online, with perhaps only manufacturing and shipping costs charged for hardcopies (cds, prints, books, etc). But are we there yet?

I personally think a deeper change of consciousness needs to occur, one in which our values begin to shift from material wealth to deeper, more subtle qualities of health, well-being, self-actualization, etc. We simply are so far from that, although there are glimmerings.

One other detail though, is that the license allow for hardcopies to be printed and sold at-cost (with no royalty for the author), as long as a digital version is freely available, and as long as the URL for that download is printed on the front page of the book along with a statement saying that a free digital version is available.

Well again, why shouldn't the author receive remuneration? As some mentioned, time = money. Creators are paid for the time they put into their creations. I mean, I hear that you are speaking especially about people doing things like your Mystara projects. But would this extend to people offering their own unique creations?

I don't want to make money off of cultural services (even though, for simplicity's sake it sounded like that in my essay). I do want to be free to receive gift monies in unforced appreciation for my work. I want that for all cultural practitioners...which includes game designers.

I understand and appreciate that you're wanting to differentiate the threefold social order and not mix them up, but the thing I'd worry about is that if you leave money solely to the economic sphere, do people only make money through economic, functional, utilitarian work? Where does the artist fit into this?

The only way what you are talking about could really work, in my opinion, is with some kind of "citizen's stipend" - and yes, for those fearing the dreaded "S" word, that is socialism. I could imagine a society where all citizens receive a base stipend that is equal to the cost of living simply, but healthfully, with single-payer healthcare that includes services of one's choice (e.g. holistic, naturopathic). If someone wants more money, they work for it through various means - including donations for cultural services, and greater responsibilities in the economic and political spheres.

But we're so far from this. It would require, again, a shift in the way we think - in what we value.

I wonder how much flack I'd get if I put a donate button next to a Mystara aficionado-produced item? Maybe it would work. I'm glad to offer things completely free (and I do), yet it's better to also have the option of materially supporting each other freely for these cultural offerings.

Yes, I agree. I think the best we can hope for right now is if WotC offers some kind of open gaming license that allows you to do so.

Of course it's not a bad idea to invent my own world. Yet copyright law, as it has been extended, hinders humanity by making us have to re-invent the wheel over and over again. Copyright law lays minefields in the mind, to block anyone from following the path one cleared. An 18 year copyright (the length of one generation) is long enough for the creator to be materially supported while they bring forth another creative fruit.

Doesn't the owner of a copyright have the freedom to allow others to use their IP? This is where self-publishing is key to building towards the future you're talking about.

I invested decades of interest in Mystara. Yes, that may be misplaced time and sentiment. My essay is an expression of hope that my time and sentiment will not have been misplaced in a corporate box.

I hear that. I guess I'm also an advocate of people creating original works. I mean, why not do both? Offer up your Mystara stuff freely, but then begin work on something of your own design? You might find it liberating - no longer playing in a sandbox with someone else's toys.

That did happen, yet Hasbro overreacted and killed the golden goose. The cream would eventually rise to the top. Better for Hasbro to have initiated a sort of "WotC seal of quality" in association with Green Ronin, Malhavoc, and other top-notch companies, and to educate the game stores and distributors, than to try to clear the market through the 3.5 rupture (and then kill and split the market through 4E).

Well I agree, and it may be that they're doing something like this with 5E - licensing out projects to different "WotC approved" companies. It is clearly very limited so far, but hopefully we'll see further possibility in the future.

I am resolved to hold off at least until the Open Game arrives (or doesn't arrive) in early 2015.

Thanks for your thoughtful and inspiring response. I may take up some of your suggestions.

Hey, I'm just another bozo on the bus! But no problem. Keep up the dreaming and don't get discouraged by people's reactions!
 

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This whole thread is political from start to finish.

Untrue. There are three political elements in this thread:

1) Talk about how the lengthy extension of copyright-as-it-exists, is an intrusion of the political state into the cultural sphere. If the American Republic had retained its original 14 (or 18) year copyright law, D&D would already be in the Public Domain.
2) Brief mention of the wider goal of separating culture from both business and government. Examples were given as to how this might look in the field of game design, such as a game-designer association or guild.
3) Comparison by others of Free Culture Idea to the Socialist Idea. At least as it is articulated by myself and other "threefolders", Free Culture is both commercial-free and state-free. If something is state-free, it has hardly anything in common with communism (that is, statist socialism).

Besides those three things, other elements of this thread are about economics and culture, including D&D business and D&D culture.
 

AncientSpirits made the Radiance RPG which uses the 3.5 OGL and makes the game FANTASTIC it's one of the best incarnation of the D&D 3.5 rules I have ever seen and it's completely free!

Thanks for the heads-up about Radiance.

I'll check it out, along with Mages & Monsters and O.L.D. and N.E.W.
 

3 elements should be 2 more than needed to shut it down. This isn't the place to wax political.

Anyway, this shouldn't be shocking or anything. People have been making their own fantasy heartbreakers since 1973. If you enjoy the process of creation, then this is certainly a worthwhile project, no less than actually playing a game. Rather than offering good luck, because I'm not sure why you'd need that, I'll just say, enjoy. Learning something about game design can certainly be rewarding.
 

Untrue. There are three political elements in this thread:

1) Talk about how the lengthy extension of copyright-as-it-exists, is an intrusion of the political state into the cultural sphere. If the American Republic had retained its original 14 (or 18) year copyright law, D&D would already be in the Public Domain.
2) Brief mention of the wider goal of separating culture from both business and government. Examples were given as to how this might look in the field of game design, such as a game-designer association or guild.
3) Comparison by others of Free Culture Idea to the Socialist Idea. At least as it is articulated by myself and other "threefolders", Free Culture is both commercial-free and state-free. If something is state-free, it has hardly anything in common with communism (that is, statist socialism).

Besides those three things, other elements of this thread are about economics and culture, including D&D business and D&D culture.

I agree it's about other things in addition to being about politics. But you can't deny politics is a theme running through the thread, in addition to other non-political themes. And it doesn't seem possible to remove the political aspects from the discussion - they are too intertwined with the non-political ones. Hence someone says something political (without giving that train of thought the common title it uses), and someone names the title that represents that train of thought (like communism, or marxism, or socialism, or capitalism, or whatever), and they get called out for being political...as if the title that represents that notion, rather than the train of thought itself, is what is political in nature.

It's not the name "Marxism" that makes something political, that is just a title commonly used to help easily communicate a line of thinking in a single word. It's things like saying "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" that is Marxist discussion. Same goes for every other political title. And this thread is rife with political thought from start to finish, intertwined with non-political thought. It makes it essentially impossible to fully and freely discuss back and forth, given the no-politics rules of the forum. There are frequently things people might want to say in reply to something, that they cannot say because of that political aspect.

It would probably make for better discussion at ENWorld's sister-site, CircvsMaximvs.com .
 
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And "ensuring that artists are paid well for their work" has a pretty sound to it, but dig a little deeper and it's ugly. The only way to do this is to force people to pay the artist whether they want to or not. I find the loss of liberty inherent in this approach to be far worse than the current system.

What force and ugliness is involved in a private association of game designers and independent game companies banding together to share resources, and thereby provide a basic, steady income which is otherwise attainable only by the few game designers who work for very large corporations, or who work fulltime at some day job and do game design on the side? What loss of liberty is inherent to a practical association of game-designer (artist) owned enterprises? What force is involved in funding art and games through freely-given kickstarters, donate buttons, and by pledges (a Free Culture evolution of the subscription model)?
 

The OP's economics argument is deeply flawed. Just for starters, the three rule books are $150, which at the federal minimum wage of $7.25 will take you about 20 hours to earn. So you can take an extra part time job at McDonald's for one week and pay for the books, or you can put in who knows how many hours to write them yourself. Unless you really think you can create a rules set of equal value to the published 5E books in less than 20 hours, which I would seriously doubt, the economics argument flops.

I haven't argued that it's more economically efficient for me and other people to design our own Fifth Edition. Another poster mentioned division of labor, and I agreed that for strictly economic purposes, division of labor is good and efficient.

My resolve isn't based on finding a more economically efficient way to design the next edition of D&D.
 

I think you'd need to be more clear about what "corporate embedded" artists are, in your mind. I don't think the folks who did art on the PHB, for example, are permanent employees of WotC, or Hasbro, or the like. So, not really "embedded" in a meaningful sense.

But how is that "firm" not itself a corporation? It sounds like just an agency. The "firm" will need administration, and the artists themselves probably don't have the proper skillsets. Even if some of them do, that means said artists will have to be recompensed for the time they take on administration instead of doing art for pay... and now you have a standard corporate structure, and overall corporate goals. The fact that it is artist owned is zero protection against the negative aspects of corporate influence.

If D&D was stewarded by an artist-owned-and-directed collectivity which was imbued with love of the game as its primary purpose, and which economics-wise, was devoted to providing a modest livelihood, then nearly all of the WotC-layoffed designers could still be working there.

Here's a difference between a potential Game Designers Associative Guild compared to Hasbro Incorporated-as-it-exists:

"All in this together", an article in The Economist magazine, about the Basque worker-owned collectivity named Mondragon, and how it does business very differently than a conventional business. During economic downtowns, the Mondragon workers actually decided to temporarily lower their own livelihood, so that other workers in their collective business can continue to work and receive a livelihood.

In contrast:

"WotC's [Hasbro's] Annual Xmas Layoffs" by Morrus

"Will WotC be affected by Hasbro's goal of 10% layoffs by 2015?"

These are meaningful differences.

It's not impossible to imagine Claudio Pozas having an even steadier role as a full-time game artist, working on an even wider array of rpg cultural offerings.
 

What force and ugliness is involved in a private association of game designers and independent game companies banding together to share resources, and thereby provide a basic, steady income which is otherwise attainable only by the few game designers who work for very large corporations, or who work fulltime at some day job and do game design on the side? What loss of liberty is inherent to a practical association of game-designer (artist) owned enterprises? What force is involved in funding art and games through freely-given kickstarters, donate buttons, and by pledges (a Free Culture evolution of the subscription model)?

I can tell you now, as someone who has been involved in what you describe as a "Free culture" does not work. It has multiple inherent problems.

1. Most people ignore "Donate" buttons, while demanding the developers implement/fix their personal want.

2. Kickstarter has demonstrated a limit to the number of people willing to donate, there is risk in donating and many people simply will not do it. Of the people who do participate, most think it is a pre-order, not a donation.

3. Socialized game development disincentivizes developers and artists. If everyone is paid equally, then the most talented are severely undercompensated and the least talented are severely overcompensated while they do the minimum necessary to be paid. A talented developer or artist can make substantially more going into some other industry than they would in a socialized system. It's the current video game industry problem, extremely long hours, comparitively low pay, and the most talented people simply go work in another industry for 50% more money and a normal work week.

4. It facilitates scamming. Kickstarter has a lot of problems with this already, someone throws together a bunch of concept art, gets the pledges, and then "it didn't work out". Socialized game development would be even worse, as I said earlier, just rapidly generate a ton of drek with no real effort, take money.

5. If game developers can't make game development their full time job, then capitalism is working properly. Either their product doesn't have much appeal, appeals only to a very niche market, or is of poor quality. Socializing it won't change anything. If 5 developers cannot make a living developing 5 games alone, they cannot make a living by sharing the revenues of those 5 games either. Which means...

6. Your whole plan is definitely socialism. The only way your plan works is if there is 1 developer making a ton of money, and you take that money from him and give it to the other 5 people so they can make a living generating low-appeal products. The moment that 1 developer leaves because you've taken away all of his reward your whole system caves. It only works if that 1 developer is willing to not receive the rewards his efforts generated. There's very, very, very few people who will do this.

7. Your plan also sounds like the Cable TV bundle problem. If I want to watch HBO, I have to subsidize 200 channels of stuff I will never watch. Ultimately, for me it becomes more cost effective to just wait for the blurays and not have Cable TV. For others it is more cost effective to just torrent the 1 show they watch instead of paying for the 200 channels they don't watch. People are very resistant to subsidizing products they don't want or use.
 

All of which I like in theory, although my concern is that I still want artists and other creative types to make a living off of their work. Donations only may be difficult.

Besides the personal micro-donations, there are larger scale funding mechanisms for a Free Cultural sector which I haven't brought into this thread. One funding method is peer-based grants. Sometimes a great artist/designer is recognized only by his or her peers; their work is not yet appreciated by the public. That's where non-governmental/non-commercial associations of artists/designers/scientists could provide grants and stipends to unrecognized peers in their field.

Perhaps kickstarter is a trend towards the direction your advocating, though. People are essentially investing in creative properties that they enjoy.

Exactly. Kickstarter a great tool for building a third sector of Free Culture.

I do wonder, though, if what you are talking about is simply too advanced for the larger social-cultural-economic context that we live in, and thus too out of sync. I mean, I would love to see all artists and musicians offer their work freely (by donation) online, with perhaps only manufacturing and shipping costs charged for hardcopies (cds, prints, books, etc). But are we there yet?

I personally think a deeper change of consciousness needs to occur, one in which our values begin to shift from material wealth to deeper, more subtle qualities of health, well-being, self-actualization, etc. We simply are so far from that, although there are glimmerings.

The glimmerings won't glow brighter unless they are consciously stoked.

Well again, why shouldn't the author receive remuneration? As some mentioned, time = money. Creators are paid for the time they put into their creations. I mean, I hear that you are speaking especially about people doing things like your Mystara projects. But would this extend to people offering their own unique creations?

Time = Life. I'm not saying that's bad that, in our current way of life, authors treat their books as just another commodity to be bought and sold. But in a free cultural sector, creators are paid not so much "for the time they put into their creations", but paid because they are fruitful and inspiring, and because of their personal connection with the audience of patrons (such as kickstarter).

People wouldn't have to adopt the Free Culture model. There could still be "cultural businesses". The main structural difference between a "cultural business" and a "free cultural initiative" is that any transaction which involves receiving an object or service in exchange for money would be taxed. Donated monies would not be taxed.

I understand and appreciate that you're wanting to differentiate the threefold social order and not mix them up, but the thing I'd worry about is that if you leave money solely to the economic sphere, do people only make money through economic, functional, utilitarian work? Where does the artist fit into this?

Mercurius, I feel relieved that you understand what I'm saying. Your questions about the details are right on.

In brief, if an producer in a cultural field doesn't evoke appreciation for their work (from, say, kickstarter patrons or from peer grants) then they will need to find work in the Economic Republic (a term for the entire economy as a coherent entity) or in the Rights Republic (the political governance).

The only way what you are talking about could really work, in my opinion, is with some kind of "citizen's stipend" - and yes, for those fearing the dreaded "S" word, that is socialism. I could imagine a society where all citizens receive a base stipend that is equal to the cost of living simply, but healthfully, with single-payer healthcare that includes services of one's choice (e.g. holistic, naturopathic).

A Basic Income, as considered in Switzerland, is one way to go about it. Though in America, given our natural distaste for governmentalism, I suggest transforming the "minimum wage" into a more abundant Fraternal Livelihood which is still tied to gainful work. It would be more feasible then for an aspiring cultural practictioner (e.g. amateur game designers) to work, say 30 hours at a conventional retail job, and have enough to pay rent and so forth, and still have time and energy to devote to their creative aspirations.

If someone wants more money, they work for it through various means - including donations for cultural services, and greater responsibilities in the economic and political spheres.

Yes, right on.

But we're so far from this. It would require, again, a shift in the way we think - in what we value.

Yes it will require a massive displacement in conceptions, emotions, and motivations. I've just published a two-volume book about this, entitled The Idea and World Wide Trisecting. Even D&D and Hasbro have a place in the healthy, humane future. I mention D&D in Book Two.

Doesn't the owner of a copyright have the freedom to allow others to use their IP? This is where self-publishing is key to building towards the future you're talking about.

Yes, I only advocate two changes in copyright law:

1) A rollback from 120 years to 18 years (the length of one generation).
2) A removal of the law which compels copyright holders to send cease-and-desist orders and lawsuits to every single potential unauthorized use of their copyrighted material. Presently, copyright holders have to do this, or their copyright can be voided. This aspect of the law was purchased by the lawyer industry to keep their business going. I suggest leaving it to the whim of the copyright holder. Some might adopt a live-and-let live attitude toward some uses.

Besides that, I only advocate that artists/creators freely de-commoditize their work, as a voluntary action toward realizing a Free Culture.

I mean, why not do both? Offer up your Mystara stuff freely, but then begin work on something of your own design? You might find it liberating - no longer playing in a sandbox with someone else's toys.

Yes, that's a good idea. This thread has inspired me.

Well I agree, and it may be that they're doing something like this with 5E - licensing out projects to different "WotC approved" companies. It is clearly very limited so far...

Yeah, these products, though of high quality, are just contracted Hasbro books. That alone is not going to bring the Third Golden Age. I prefer four things to go on at the same time:

1) The 5E SRD needs to be opened even wider than the OGL...and it doesn't get any wider than Public Domain. Every sort of third-party publisher and self-publisher gets into the game...the good, the bad, and the ugly.
2) Hasbro would continue to produce a few big titles each year, which stay in print for a decade, because they are so well-supported by the Public Domain-fueled inferno of interest.
3) Hasbro would or could continue to produce a few contracted books and accessories, for things it doesn't want to do in-house. As you say, this is what we're seeing so far.
4) Hasbro and an association of quality game producers join together to make a "Quality Mark". It would not be a bad idea to get this Quality Mark going from the start. Promote this Quality Mark among the game distributors and gamestores; and educate them, and the game-buying public, about how that mark distinguishes that Association's products from other SRD products. Yes, this means Hasbro acting as a genuine peer to Paizo (!), Green Ronin, Pelgrane, Monte Cook Games, Necromancer Games, Goodman Games, EN World Publishing, and others, instead of as a dog-eat-dog competitor. The peer relationship is an associative relationship. The domineering, controlling, dickering relationship is a corporatist relationship.

But free the SRD anyway, otherwise 5E will be handicapped and this edition will consist only of Hasbro works, plus contracted Hasbro works, plus fan works, plus a few things from third parties that are deftly written to be implicitly compatible with 5E (Goodman games "Fifth Edition" adventures). That's no Golden Age. That's just a slightly more liberal, slightly less constricted version of the Fourth Edition era.

Hey, I'm just another bozo on the bus! But no problem. Keep up the dreaming and don't get discouraged by people's reactions!

Thanks Mercurius.
 
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