D&D 5E Illusionist - is it as weak as it seems?

[Tony Vargas]

Basically, I'm left wondering -- am I missing something in regards to the power of the Illusionist (as compared to other Wizards), or is this arcane tradition in need of a home-brew overhaul? And if you recommend an overhaul, do you have any ideas to increase their power or player attraction?

You can probably do a lot in the realm of DM judgement (rulings not rules!) without resorting to any sort of formal overhaul. It's fine your to decide that a monster believes an illusion and reacts appropriately, for instance, details of the spell in question notwisthstanding.

As long as there are enough opportunities where illusions can be used effectively, the the player of the illusionist shouldn't feel his character 'too weak.' Setting up the right mix of situations for him (and everyone else) is up to you.

 

[Gadget]

While I agree that illusions can be great in the hands of a creative player and a willing DM, I would like to point out that the above much ballyhooed Phantasm spells, there are only 5 in the PHB iirc: one of them is the Phantom Steed spell that can be cast as a ritual, one is the previously mentioned Phantasmal Force, another is Fear, finally we have Phantasmal Killer and Weird (basically Mass Phantasmal Killer ).

While Phantom Steed has its uses, and Phantasmal Force and Fear are excellent, the latter two are somewhat less so. When casting these spells, if the target(s) fail a wisdom saving throw, they become frightened until the end of their next turn. If the target(s) fail another wisdom ST, then they will begin to take damage and continue to be frightened with a save every round to stop the damage and end the spell. While this can be devastating to targets that continually fail multiple saves, requiring two failed saves before any damage is taken from on ongoing, save every round spell of 4th (or 9th) level seems a bit much.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

While Phantom Steed has its uses, and Phantasmal Force and Fear are excellent, the latter two are somewhat less so. When casting these spells, if the target(s) fail a wisdom saving throw, they become frightened until the end of their next turn. If the target(s) fail another wisdom ST, then they will begin to take damage and continue to be frightened with a save every round to stop the damage and end the spell. While this can be devastating to targets that continually fail multiple saves, requiring two failed saves before any damage is taken from on ongoing, save every round spell of 4th (or 9th) level seems a bit much.

You're looking at a pre-errata version of the PHB. Check the revisions here: https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/PH-Errata-V1.pdf

 

[Zene]

I have a dream of one day playing a high-level illusionist. No other class/subclass can mess with reality itself like the illusionist can. Illusory Reality is nuts. Plus the ridiculous power of Wish that comes with the Wizard class chassis...

If only I didn't find low-level wizards so uninteresting to play

 

[BedlamBlade]

Do note though that Illusory Reality is usable only once per spell. If you make one wall real, you can't make another real unless you re-cast Mirage Arcana.

IIRC, Mirage Arcane can make terrain difficult on its own, no need for Illusory Reality.

It's been quite awhile, and I can't recall my original intent, but there are ways to get Silent Image at will, to cover your wall needs.

 

[Zene]

IIRC, Mirage Arcane can make terrain difficult on its own, no need for Illusory Reality.

It's been quite awhile, and I can't recall my original intent, but there are ways to get Silent Image at will, to cover your wall needs.

Also Mirage Arcane with Malleable Illusions .... Mirage Arcane: "[FONT=&quot]Similarly, you can alter the appearance of structures, or add them where none are present"..."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]it can turn clear ground into difficult terrain (or vice versa) or otherwise impede movement through the area"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. So put up a wall, or even a dang barn. Yeah, technically it's not "real", but since it's tactile, it will still impede movement.[/FONT]

 

[77IM]

I think there's three different, but related, issues under discussion here:

1) Illusion spells: They're totally fine; they do what they're supposed to, and a creative player with a reasonable DM can have a lot of fun with them.

2) Playing a wizard who has ONLY illusion spells, or predominantly illusion spells: This sucks, don't do this. Sorry, but in 5e, spell balance is very damage-oriented, and they nerfed all non-damage spells. This was deliberate, to prevent stun-lock builds. The goal is for non-damaging spells to be better in special situations, and damaging spells to be better in the general case. So feel free to pick up a lot of illusion spells, but grab a couple of reliable damage-dealers too.

3) Illusion tradition (wizard subclass): It seems weaker than most other wizard subclasses. Honestly, I'd sooner pick a Conjuration or Enchantment tradition, and those two are also on the weak end. For me, the biggest problem is that the level 2 ability is lame. Minor illusion creates an illusion of an object so adding sound to it is useless. If they reduced casting time to a bonus action, or allowed multiple minor illusions to run at once, or something, that might be interesting. Or, maybe, Truesight 30 ft., that would be pretty cool, and fitting with the concept. Hell, SOMETHING other than "a free cantrip" would be good here.

Now, I'm not saying Illusion subclass is gimped or unplayable, or that you can't have fun playing Illusionist wizard. Just that it seems mechanically less useful than most other wizard traditions.

 

[cormanthor]

Now, I'm not saying Illusion subclass is gimped or unplayable, or that you can't have fun playing Illusionist wizard. Just that it seems mechanically less useful than most other wizard traditions.

This is precisely the point I was trying to get across. In the months I've been running this campaign, however, it has not come up. No one choose to play (or even multi-class into) a wizard.

 

[Gadget]

You're looking at a pre-errata version of the PHB. Check the revisions here: https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/PH-Errata-V1.pdf

All the errata does is make sure the target is frightened through the end of their turn if the first ST is failed. While that is a slight improvement (other wise the target could potentially make the second save at the start of their turn and act normally), it does not in any way alleviate my concern of having to fail two saves before taking any damage, especially when the spell offers a save every round, with two saves on the first round (albeit on different turns). The better option would be to have the target that fails their first save take damage at the start of their turn, then make a save at the end of their turn to end the spell; repeat until save is made or duration expires (either by going the full 10 rounds or the caster losing concentration).

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Ah, I see your point.