D&D General I'm a Fighter, not a Lover: Why the 1e Fighter was so Awesome

[Lanefan]

Armor was sure plentiful, but having a fighter with a high dex was very unlikely. You put your scores into STR or CON.

I've seen good-Dex warrior types often enough to know they're a thing.

But if decent Dex doesn't make sense, by RAW 1e you can substitute a Ring of Protection +2 for the Dex and you're right back to -7; and Rings +2 were fairly common.

 

[Voadam]

I was surprised to see just how few cloak of protections there were.

I had forgotten those were a thing, another potential +5 of AC and save bonuses (just does not stack with armor and shields)

 

[ValamirCleaver]

Max would be Bracers AC 2, dex 18 (-4), (wooden) shield +5 (-6), ring of protection +6 AC for AC -14. Scimitar +5 defender could make that a -19.

While it has been a very long time since I've read the 1e DMG in depth, but I recall reading somewhere that -10 is the best possible Armor Class outside of a unique, extremely high level magical creature such as a dragon or extra-planar denizen.

 

[Zardnaar]

The Dark Conventicle Loot. From memory this one had a lot. We probably used Method V UA as dice rolling hence really high ability scores (17 or 18 dexterity). I was not the DM mates older brother was. Think we had 4 PCs (mate, one of our group players, older brothers mate, and myself maybe 1 more). This was after we played 2E (bought 1995). Adventure is in Dungeon issue 11.

There's some random encounters. Some of them have some minor loot. Ignoring them as its fairly minor. Cultists of Anthraxus alot have amulets of protection vs good (every cultist more or less).

Loot
Mirror of Opposition (basically a trap)
Bracers of Defense AC 3
+2 bastard sword
Wand of Magic Missiles(5 charges)
Potion of Healing.
Potion Extra Healing
Potion: Flying
Ring: Water Breathing
Dagger +1, +2 vs small creatures
Potion: Fire Rersistance
Potion?:Ghast Control
Cloak of Poisonousness
Potion of Growth
Scroll of Protection vs Petrification
Bracers of Defense AC 3
+2 bastard sword
Wand of Magic Missiles(5 charges)
Potion of Healing.
Lower Priests with +1 and +2 maces
Bracers of Defense AC2
Ring of Protection +4
Staff of Striking
Wand of Paralyzation
Lots of scrolls
Cloak of Protection +3
Ring of Protection +3
Badge of Monster control
+4 mace
Wand of Fear
Ring of Protection +2
Mace +3
Still more scrolls
Bracers of Defense AC 6
Cloak of Protection +4
Ring of Fire resistance
+2 staff

It was probably this adventure I got the bracers, ring/cloaks from. There is some other stuff in there I couldn't be bothered listing. Adventure level 8-12. I cant remember who got what but Bracers AC 3 or 2 would have been one of them +3 ring and cloak minimum.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I've seen good-Dex warrior types often enough to know they're a thing.

But if decent Dex doesn't make sense, by RAW 1e you can substitute a Ring of Protection +2 for the Dex and you're right back to -7; and Rings +2 were fairly common.

Not at lower levels. Only around name level or above.

 

[Voadam]

While it has been a very long time since I've read the 1e DMG in depth, but I recall reading somewhere that -10 is the best possible Armor Class outside of a unique, extremely high level magical creature such as a dragon or extra-planar denizen.

I am not aware of any such explicit limitation.

I can find the reverse on page 79 at the beginning of the attack charts

"Armor class below 10 is not possible except through cursed items. Armor class above 2 is easily possible due to magical bonuses and dexterity bonuses. To determine a “to hit” number not on the charts, project upwards by 1’s (5% increments), repeating 20 six times before continuing with 21 (Cf. MATRIX I.A.)."

The charts only covered down to -10 but the quote here explicitly provides rules for going below -10.

In practice -10 was about the lowest in the 1e monster books, Lolth had a -10 as did Yochlols. Grazzt, Pazuzu, and Solars had a -9, Demogorgon had a -8.

 

[Zardnaar]

The Deadly Sea (levels 4-7 Dungeon 3)

Played this adventure earlier in the year in C&C. Maybe late last year.

Relevant Loot

Splint Mail +2
Flail +1
Shield +1
Leather Armor +1
+1 short sword
Dagger +2
Potion of Healing
Ring of Protection +1
+1 shield
+2 Hammer
+1 Leather
Potion Human control
Potion: Levitation
Ring of Swimming
Cloak of the Manta Ray
Gauntlets of Swimming and Climbing
Necklace of Adaption
Platemail +1
Ring of Protection +3
Chainmail +2
Staff of Striking
Boots of Elven Kind
+1 Dagger
Cloak of Elvenkind
Potion of invisibility
+1 trident
Trident of Submission
Trident of Yearning
10 Potions of Waterbreathing
+1 spear
+2 plate armor
Multiple Potions

Just gonna cherry pick from here ignoring scrolls and potions

Dagger +3
Staff of the Sea Snake
Trident +4
Shortsword +1
Harpoon +2
Dagger +1, +2 vs marine animals
+1 Shortsword
+1 Javelin
Bracers of Defense AC 4
Wand of Negation

 

[ValamirCleaver]

Armor class above 2 is easily possible due to magical bonuses and dexterity bonuses.

The charts only covered down to -10 but the quote here explicitly provides rules for going below -10.

While you're correct in quoting from the 1e DMG that an AC better than 2 is possible, there is not an explicit statement that an AC better than -10 possible. In any event a DM could logically interpret that the section as meaning that an AC better than -10 is possible because it is not explicitly excluded in anywhere the 1e DMG.

I just figured out where I read that an AC better than -10 is not possible, but it is not necessarily directly applicable to 1e AD&D. On page 240 of the revised 2e DMG, in the section of magical item descriptions, under the Armor & Shields section, it states:

For each +1 bonus to armor, regardless of the type of armor, the wearer’s Armor Class moves downward (toward AC 2 ... to 1 ... to 0, –1, –2, and so on). A normal shield improves the armor class by one. A magical shield improves Armor Class like magical armor— toward –1, –2, etc. Note, however, that Armor Class can never be improved beyond –10.
[emphasis mine]

 

[James Gasik]

Say what you will about 4e, and I've said a lot, but it seems they really did try to address this issue with how they handled non-magical healing.

Armor was sure plentiful, but having a fighter with a high dex was very unlikely. You put your scores into STR or CON.

It depends, if I only have a 17 or less Str, I might as well put it in Dex for the 3 more points of AC. The 3 hp/level is probably better in the long run, but surviving the early levels is a lot easier with a low AC (just from my experience).

 

[mixmastashizz]

I am not aware of any such explicit limitation.

I can find the reverse on page 79 at the beginning of the attack charts

"Armor class below 10 is not possible except through cursed items. Armor class above 2 is easily possible due to magical bonuses and dexterity bonuses. To determine a “to hit” number not on the charts, project upwards by 1’s (5% increments), repeating 20 six times before continuing with 21 (Cf. MATRIX I.A.)."

The charts only covered down to -10 but the quote here explicitly provides rules for going below -10.

In practice -10 was about the lowest in the 1e monster books, Lolth had a -10 as did Yochlols. Grazzt, Pazuzu, and Solars had a -9, Demogorgon had a -8.

Maybe the bounded accuracy was the attack matrix all along