I'm not sure I buy the Fullblade

[Mad Hamish]

Yes, their role in the front of the pike formation, lopping at pike heads, was much more dangerous than that of the pikemen, and they died more than twice as often!

I'd have thought there was an upper limit of once each.

 

[Dausuul]

Real-world swords spanned an incredible variety of sizes and shapes. I would say that the "greatsword" is something akin to the two-handed Highland claymore, while the "fullblade" is more like the zweihänder others in this thread have mentioned. Both are quite big weapons, but the zweihänder is noticeably bigger; a shade under five feet for the claymore, up to six feet for the zweihänder.

As for speed and reaction time, keep in mind:

a) Real fighting swords are much lighter than people think. Even those giant zweihänders only weighed about six or seven pounds. (The ten-pound weight given for the fullblade is pushing the edge of plausibility, and some of the weights given for big swords in earlier editions are frankly ludicrous--1E, home of the 25-pound two-handed sword, I'm looking at you.)

b) Fighting techniques with big swords covered a lot more than "put both hands on the hilt and hack." Medieval fighting manuals demonstrate an amazing variety of grips and moves. You can put one hand on the lower part of the blade, giving you finer control in a thrust and the ability to use it like a quarterstaff when parrying or disarming. You can flip the weapon around, put both hands on the blade, and use the cross-guard like a warhammer*! You can bash with the pommel. European knightly combat was every bit as much a martial art as anything you'd find in Japan.

[size=-2]*Sturdy gauntlets highly recommended.[/size]

 

[DonAdam]

Mechanically, there would be no need for the fullblade if greatswords were worth using. But they're not. So while in previous editions I've been against "it's an [iconic two-handed weapon], BUT BIGGER!" as a justification for a superior weapon, in 4e I think it was necessary if you wanted competitive damage on big-sword users.

We too did the broken-sword becomes a fullblade for my deva avenger, only we used great axe stats instead.

 

[Mercurius]

I guess I forgot the "rule of cool" and the fun of the game, but I remember now - thanks

I also forgot that the best way to go is figure out a character concept and tailor the mechanics to fit it. For example, my ranger is a bit of an "accursed wanderer" who is somewhat of a chosen warrior of a goddess similar to Sehanine (thus the Moonbow); a single large sword fits the avenger-esque idea, but a six-foot weapon doesn't really fit the idea of mobility. But I can re-envision the fullblade as a masterfully crafted bastard sword - something maybe five feet in all, but so perfectly weighted to give the extra damage and crit.

But a zweihander or no-dachi doesn't fit, but a finely crafted bastard sword does. The main thing I want is that extra crit because I want to go with a single-weapon ranger so the only way I can justify doing that and giving up twin strike in melee is with fullblade.

 

[Dausuul]

I guess I forgot the "rule of cool" and the fun of the game, but I remember now - thanks

I also forgot that the best way to go is figure out a character concept and tailor the mechanics to fit it. For example, my ranger is a bit of an "accursed wanderer" who is somewhat of a chosen warrior of a goddess similar to Sehanine (thus the Moonbow); a single large sword fits the avenger-esque idea, but a six-foot weapon doesn't really fit the idea of mobility. But I can re-envision the fullblade as a masterfully crafted bastard sword - something maybe five feet in all, but so perfectly weighted to give the extra damage and crit.

But a zweihander or no-dachi doesn't fit, but a finely crafted bastard sword does. The main thing I want is that extra crit because I want to go with a single-weapon ranger so the only way I can justify doing that and giving up twin strike in melee is with fullblade.

Just wondering--why does a zweihander not fit? It's quite mobile, like any sword. The idea of swords, even the biggest ones, as massive cumbersome weapons that take ages to recover from a swing is pure myth.

 

[Neverfate]

I rolled up a brawler fighter, who for dailies, quickdraws out a "fullblade" which in game is an iron pipe. He also quickdraws a Katar that is a shiv. He's a street fighter from jail. He fights dirty, by instinct and with sheer force (enhancing everything through a Monk's ki focus), so that he can turn mundane items into weapons.

He is loosely based on Cody from the Final Fight/Street Fighter video game series.

 

[Mercurius]

Just wondering--why does a zweihander not fit? It's quite mobile, like any sword. The idea of swords, even the biggest ones, as massive cumbersome weapons that take ages to recover from a swing is pure myth.

With regards to the zweihander specifically, I was thinking in terms of carrying it around - how would a mobile ranger do that? Slung across his back? I suppose it could be stashed within a bag of holding while travelling, but having a 6-foot weapon strapped across one's back seems odd.

In terms of combat, though, I was guessing a zweihander would work much the same as a no-dachi. In this [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moRKa3y3XxA&feature=related"]Youtube video[/ame], this no-dachi wielder looks skillful, but it still seems slower than a katana would and I'm wondering how a no-dachi would be able to keep up with a katana, or defend against quicker attacks. I'd imagine the same with a zweihander vs. a longsword or bastard sword.

 

[generalchaos34]

With regards to the zweihander specifically, I was thinking in terms of carrying it around - how would a mobile ranger do that? Slung across his back? I suppose it could be stashed within a bag of holding while travelling, but having a 6-foot weapon strapped across one's back seems odd.

In terms of combat, though, I was guessing a zweihander would work much the same as a no-dachi. In this Youtube video, this no-dachi wielder looks skillful, but it still seems slower than a katana would and I'm wondering how a no-dachi would be able to keep up with a katana, or defend against quicker attacks. I'd imagine the same with a zweihander vs. a longsword or bastard sword.

im sure that guy probably could have moved faster if he wanted to (5 shows a day man!) but i think the whole point is you are using the reach of the weapon to keep people at bay, not to mention the psychological effect of a huge sword being swung at you, you will more instinctively want to get out of the way even if you know better

 

[WalterKovacs]

1. The Greatsword does the same damage as the Bastard Sword, so I treat both as roughly a 4' blade, + 12" to 18" hilt. Much like historical 'greteswords' in fact.

2. A fullblade with 5' blade + 12" to 18" hilt is the size of the 1e AD&D "Two-Handed Sword" and is no bigger than plenty of historical two-handed swords; William Wallace's personal sword was that size. 16th century German Zweihanders were often larger.

I think this may be the easiest solution:

The greatsword is the 'old' bastard sword from 3.x, where it's martial to wield it 2 handed but you need proficiency to wield it 1 handed. The fullblade then becomes a greatsword, which can only be wielded 2-handed. [Heck, the broadsword can then also be fluffed as an untrained use of the bastard sword 1-handed, resulting in a lower prof bonus.]

 

[Obryn]

Honestly? I prefer to think of most every Superior weapon as just enhanced training in a normal weapon.

So, a guy with Fullblade Proficiency just uses Greatswords and gets d12 and High Crit out of them. A guy with Mordenkrad Proficiency just gets Brutal 1 out of his Maul. And so on...

Obviously, this doesn't hold for double weapons and the like, though it could.

-O