Immortals Handbook - Ascension Discussion

[Omeganian]

A question; where does Moses belong on the scale? You see, while he is normally called a prophet, he is put above the other Jewish prophets. There are two major differences:

1) While other prophets received orders from God by going into trance or while in sleep, Moses had a constant 24/7 connection, active when he was fully conscious.

2) After he came down from Mount Sinai, for 40 years Moses required neither food nor drink, and also didn't have sex with his wife (in Judaism, a behavior unacceptable for a man).

 

[Upper_Krust]

A question; where does Moses belong on the scale? You see, while he is normally called a prophet, he is put above the other Jewish prophets. There are two major differences:

1) While other prophets received orders from God by going into trance or while in sleep, Moses had a constant 24/7 connection, active when he was fully conscious.

2) After he came down from Mount Sinai, for 40 years Moses required neither food nor drink, and also didn't have sex with his wife (in Judaism, a behavior unacceptable for a man).

Its an interesting question. I have been debating with myself whether or not to include Moses in the 4E Canaanite Mythology supplement as one of the playable PCs. Aaron, Daniel, Moses, Samson, Solomon with maybe Adam supplanting either Aaron or Daniel. Although thats for another thread.

To answer your question, the absolute ceiling limit we can set for Moses is probably Hero-deity. Jesus is the quintessential 'hero' of the religion and he would be a Quasi-deity - using my system that is...and not in anyway meaning to offend anyone.

 

[Paragon]

weird question about the gaining of quintessence.

say you have a power that has been cast out of the pantheon and imprisoned, on like pandemonium or those wells in the abyss that people get imprisoned in.

if you gain entry and slay that person, would the quint transfer still be a 10% rate of what he possessed?
just curious because it seems the other essence is "reabsorbed" by the powers home plane, but what if he no longer has a home plane or pantheon?
something like this happens in that bastion of broken souls i believe, never had a chance to play it.

just curious if it changes the amount to be absorbed or if it would dissipate out to it's former home plane. or what

thanks!

 

[paradox42]

something like this happens in that bastion of broken souls i believe, never had a chance to play it.

I ran it for my main group, and can confirm that said event does indeed happen- in fact it's critical to progress in the adventure. Spoiler'ed out for those who care:

[sblock]The ex-god in question is named Desayeus (I may have that spelled wrong), and was a god with the Portfolio of "the Unborn." Some entity or force called the Ban of the Unborn (which all other gods in the cosmos were afraid of) was designed to wake up in the event of any deity claiming that Portfolio and thus having dominion over unformed souls. To prevent this force from destroying all deities everywhere, a group of gods got together and imprisoned Desayeus in Pandemonium along with a group of Lillends who were his last surviving followers when they finally got him (the idea of course being that a deity's power is based on its number of followers, so they had to weaken him first).

He's statted as a Titan with a couple of extra items and the abilities that 3.0 grants to DR-0 deities; the reason the PCs have to go get him is that he holds the only known item that can act as a key to get the party into the Bastion of Unborn Souls itself (which is the ultimate goal site of the adventure).[/sblock]

With regards to the main question of Paragon's post, Krusty may of course answer as he likes, but really I think it comes down to a DM judgement call. If your cosmos says that the reason the power-transfer is only 10% is that the rest of it goes to the home plane, then the imprisoned deity clearly doesn't have one, so in that case the power transfer won't take the penalty. If, OTOH, the 10% happens because the Quintessence itself is destroyed somehow, or because it gets reabsorbed by the cosmos itself as a whole rather than one specific plane, then clearly the 10% multiplier would still be in effect. In other words, you can justify it whichever way you like.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Paragon dude!

weird question about the gaining of quintessence.

say you have a power that has been cast out of the pantheon and imprisoned, on like pandemonium or those wells in the abyss that people get imprisoned in.

if you gain entry and slay that person, would the quint transfer still be a 10% rate of what he possessed?

just curious because it seems the other essence is "reabsorbed" by the powers home plane, but what if he no longer has a home plane or pantheon?
something like this happens in that bastion of broken souls i believe, never had a chance to play it.

just curious if it changes the amount to be absorbed or if it would dissipate out to it's former home plane. or what

thanks!

He doesn't have to be reabsorbed by 'his' home plane, just reabsorbed by the planes themselves, so its still going to be 10%.

The only way around the 10% limit is to slowly drain the quintessence with Syphoning [Effect].

 

[Belzamus]

Okay, this has probably been asked before but,

How on earth is the Lord of Individuality Transcendental Ability balanced exactly?

From what I understand, a Trans. abilility is the equivelent of 36 Divine Abilities, each of which is +1 ECL, ergo a Trans. is roughly worth +36 ECL, yet the Amidah Template is clearly worth ECL +80, almost 3 Trans. abilities.

What gives? I mean, sure they're all overpowered and the Amidah is really just a collection of Cosmic abilities, but still...

Edit: Additionally, how is Extra Portfolio balanced as a Cosmic? Because of the requirement?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Belzamus mate!

Okay, this has probably been asked before but,

How on earth is the Lord of Individuality Transcendental Ability balanced exactly?

From what I understand, a Trans. abilility is the equivelent of 36 Divine Abilities, each of which is +1 ECL, ergo a Trans. is roughly worth +36 ECL, yet the Amidah Template is clearly worth ECL +80, almost 3 Trans. abilities.

What gives? I mean, sure they're all overpowered and the Amidah is really just a collection of Cosmic abilities, but still...

Edit: Additionally, how is Extra Portfolio balanced as a Cosmic? Because of the requirement?

Well, I might be wrong (without looking it up) but doesn't that require two Transcendental Ability slots? Also you need to have the Paragon Template already which is just subsumed into the Amidah Template - the two don't stack.

So its sort of balanced.

 

[Belzamus]

Hey U_K!

And...wow, I'm blind. That makes perfect sense. Sorry about that.

 

[Farealmer3]

Hey U_K!

Would an ability that gave infinite caster level be omnific or metempiric?

Also what about infinite HD or class level? And while i'am here what's the highest spell level your products(say for 3.5 godsend) support? Could an infinite level spell exist? Would it be known only by the Supreme being or could lesser being learn it?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Howdy Farealmer3 dude!

Would an ability that gave infinite caster level be omnific or metempiric?

I'd say Metempiric. Simply because infinite caster level would allow you to duplicate any omnific ability.

Also what about infinite HD or class level?

Generally speaking, infinite 'stuff' is Omnific, however, it must be limited to one aspect of that 'infinity'.

And while i'am here what's the highest spell level your products(say for 3.5 godsend) support?

The Big Bang spell is 115th-level (last time I checked). Though since I last fixed the spells I have done a lot of cosmic research and I think that will definately be higher in Godsend.

Could an infinite level spell exist? Would it be known only by the Supreme being or could lesser being learn it?

The Akashic Records is an infinite level spell.