Improved Evasion + Bomb =

Dandu · Jun 19, 2011

Being in the jaws of a dragon is like being grappled, correct?

Vespucci · Jun 19, 2011

The "can't dodge dragon breath while it's chewing on you" scenario feels familiar. I thought it was a holdover from 2e, but there's no mention of that in the Monstrous Manual.

Croesus · Jun 19, 2011

Dandu said:
Being in the jaws of a dragon is like being grappled, correct?

My assumption is that's what Jackinthegreen was suggesting. However, I could see a situation where a character has leapt into the (really big) dragon's mouth, say to throw a dangerous potion down its throat or some such. In that case, I might rule he's not really grappled until the dragon can react by biting or grappling. A lot depends on just how big the mouth is.

I wouldn't allow something like that all the time, but as a one-off, it could be cool.

Croesus · Jun 19, 2011

Vespucci said:
The "can't dodge dragon breath while it's chewing on you" scenario feels familiar. I thought it was a holdover from 2e, but there's no mention of that in the Monstrous Manual.

I agree it sounds familiar. Perhaps something in The Dragon, or a comment by EGG. I certainly remember having GM's rule some situations did not allow saves (such as when my 1E thief was caught in a magical cage of some sort just when several fireball beads exploded. Can you say "grease spot"?

RUMBLETiGER · Jun 21, 2011

Croesus said:
It's not specifically stated in the SRD that a character 'in the jaws of a dragon' cannot make a Reflex, but the following is stated under Special Abilities, Evasion and Improved Evasion:

"As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion.
As with a Reflex save for any creature, evasion is a reflexive ability. The character need not know that the attack is coming to use evasion."

Seems to me the above qualifies as being in the jaws of a dragon. YMMV

Don't get me wrong, I'd not argue with a DM if she or he made this ruling, assuming one was somehow pinned within the jaws (like a grapple). I just wanted to know if it was a rule.
Because a REALLY dramatic leap out of dragon's mouth right before it exhaled would be Epically Awesome. Especially after placing some sort of flask or oil or something inside.

Dandu · Jun 21, 2011

Being [Paralyzed] or [Helpless] would definitely deny your a reflex save, but the [Grappled] condition is less clear.

Jackinthegreen · Jun 24, 2011

I bring links to what the rules say for the whole breath thing.

To quote Dragon, True :: d20srd.org and Monster Feats :: d20srd.org

Bite

Bite attacks deal the indicated damage plus the dragon’s Strength bonus. A dragon also can use its bite to snatch opponents if it has the Snatch feat.

Snatch [General]

Prerequisite

Size Huge or larger.
Benefits

The creature can choose to start a grapple when it hits with a claw or bite attack, as though it had the improved grab special attack. If the creature gets a hold on a creature three or more sizes smaller, it squeezes each round for automatic bite or claw damage. A snatched opponent held in the creature’s mouth is not allowed a Reflex save against the creature’s breath weapon, if it has one.