Improved Haste

[Cloudgatherer]

Now don't go screaming "munchkin" until you've read the spell....

Improved Haste
Transmutation
Level: Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 7

As haste except the subject takes an extra standard action or full round action each round instead of an extra partial action.


Now haste is only a 3rd level spell (admittedly powerful for its level). I've doubled the level (little more for Sor/Wiz) and changed the partial action to a standard action. This makes it possible to use two full round actions.

Now, is it really so bad for a 7th level Wizard spell or 6th level bard spell? The most abusive offensive tactic is that this spell benefits fighter types over spellcasters (two full round attack actions). It may also benefit sorcerers as they could apply two metamagic feats instead of just one per round. Then again, they are burning a 7th level spell to essentially do this in a single battle (and it can still be countered by slow or dispelled).

Thoughts?

[Edit: Added "or full round action"]

 

[Crothian]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm confused by this. By granteing an additional standard action, the person then gets 2 standard actions and one move action in a round. However, A full round action uses up the standard and the move action, leaving us just a standard action. How are you getting to do 2 full round actions here?

Do you mean for the spell to grant an additional full rounds worth of actions? If so, that is more then just a standard action.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I think you are confusing standard actions with partial actions.

Very quickly (and leaving out details)
A standard action = (action + move) or full-round action
partial action = move or action

An improved hasted character would get 2 standard actions a turn, not 2 standard actions and a move action.

 

[Crothian]

Pg 128 in the PHB table 8-4. It lists what option takes what type of action. Standard actions are different from a full round action according to this table.

But the spell grants an additional full round action is what you're saying.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Monte Cook has admitted he thinks Haste should be a 4th-level spell - as such you might think about making this 8th-level!?

 

[trentonjoe]

Standard actions do not equal full round action.

A full round equals a standard + a move equivelant.

If your spell adds a 2nd standard action I don't see the need.

If it equates to 2 full round actions I think it is silly but probably balanced for a 7th/8th level spell. The benefit of that would be (for a fighter) you could charge, take an attack, and then a full attack option.

I don't think it is real unbalancing but clarify what you mean first.

 

[Forrester]

Lord, people, read the damn rules.

A full-round action is NOT a standard action + a move-equivalent. As far as the amount of time it takes, it's equivalent to that of a standard action.

A non-staggered non-hasted non-slowed run of the mill character gets, during his round:

1) A standard action (action + move), OR
2) A full-round action

Perhaps he needs to work on the language of the spell, or add clarification ("a character may take an extra full-round action or an extra standard action while he is under the effect of Improved Haste" would do it), but the implication is correct; under this spell, someone could take two full-round actions.

And I don't think that's broken at all. I think Haste should be 4th level; however, all this spell does is grant the equivalent of an extra move (which, yes, could translate into a full-round attack if the character doesn't have to move).

The cheaty part of being Hasted is the extra partial action, IMO. This just adds a little gravy . . . and it's four levels higher! Even if you play with Haste as a 4th level spell, it's still three levels higher. Shees!

Seems pretty balanced to me.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Edited the language to hopefully avoid more mass confusion.

Yep, all it does is add a move/MEA/or enable a full-round action. Figure a 7th level spell should be able to do such a minor thing....

 

[Ruvion]

I agree, especially considering the kind of super haste that time stop cracks out to be at 9th level of spell mastery (1d4+1 rounds of full round actions, which equate to 2 to 5 rounds worth of unimpeded actions), I do not think giving 2 full rounds for a short duration (here you should limited to a shorter time than haste, like capping it at 5 to 10 rounds or something). My 2 cents.

 

[trentonjoe]

As haste except the subject takes an extra standard action or full round action each round instead of an extra partial action.



[Edit: Added "or full round action"] [/B]

Becasue I wouldn't want Mr. Forrester to get more upset I read the rules. I still have a beef with this wording.
Do you mean that the subject gets both an extra MOE action AND an extra Standard action and that they can be taken as a xtra Full Round Action?

I think this is what you meant I just don't think so good sometimes.

Oh, I still think it is an ok spell. I would try it at 8th and if it is not worth taking bump it down to 7th.