Improved Initiative is objectively better than Danger Sense

I enjoy the chance of rolling the dice twice, but even if Stuntman's math is correct, dont you think the diference is all too small?

A paragon feat should be better tham an heroic one, and it does not seems to be, unless...

Hey fellows!

If we consider all that powers/feats that allow a friend to reroll dice and/or add something to the result? Would that change the math balance?

I am under the impression that things get even worse for Danger Sense...
 

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I enjoy the chance of rolling the dice twice, but even if Stuntman's math is correct, dont you think the diference is all too small?

A paragon feat should be better tham a heroic one, and it does not seems to be, unless...

Hey fellows!

If we consider all that powers/feats that allow a friend to reroll dice and/or add something to the result? Would that change the math balance?

I am under the impression that things get even worse for Danger Sense...
 

There are a couple of heroic feats that boost initiative, they give Feat bonuses, so don't stack with eachother. Danger Sense doesn't give a bonus, but a re-roll, so stacks with anything. If it's statistically comparable to Improved Initiative, fine, think of it as a +4 unnamed bonus, which is stricktly superior to II's +4 /feat/ bonus.
 

I did a general analysis of Improved Initiative vs. Danger Sense. It turns out that a +4 to initative is very close to rerolling initiative once. If your initiative modifier is +1 or worse compared to your opponent, Improved Initiative is the better feat to take. If your initiative modifer is +2 or better compared to your opponent, Danger Sense is better.

Init vs. Unmod II DS
Opponent Win% Win% Win%
-5 26.25 42.75 39.81
-4 30.00 50.00 44.50
-3 34.00 57.25 49.30
-2 38.25 61.75 54.19
-1 42.75 66.00 59.14
+0 50.00 70.00 66.63
+1 57.25 73.75 73.64
+2 61.75 77.25 77.69
+3 66.00 80.50 81.30
+4 70.00 83.50 84.50
+5 73.75 86.25 87.31
 
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There was a thread that did a detailed analysis of II versus DS, as well as the effectiveness of taking both, one, or neither. It was really good. The problem is I can't seem to find it... doh! Maybe someone else knows? The gist of it is that there are some situations where II is worth is, and some where DS is, depending on the opponents' initiative.
 

Danger Sense doesn't raise your initiative bonus in the conventional sense. What it does is reduce the occurrence of low rolls.

So if you would expect to win on an 11, Danger Sense is your gold. You've gone from winning 50% of the time to 75% of the time.

Cheers, -- N
 

Well, I ran different initiative differences through my spreadsheet. If your initiative modifier is anywhere from between 2 to 10 greater than your opponent, Danger Sense will give you a higher chance of winning initiative over that opponent than Improved Initiative. Outside of this range, Improved Initiative will benefit you more than Danger Sense.
 
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Well, I ran different initiative differences through my spreadsheet. If your initiative modifier is anywhere from between 2 to 10 greater than your opponent, Danger Sense will give you a higher chance of winning initiative over that opponent than Improved Initiative. Outside of this range, Improved Initiative will benefit you more than Danger Sense.
Exactly. If you're already ahead, Danger Sense keeps you ahead, because what can still cause you to lose is losing the roll by a large margin. Danger Sense reduces the occurrence of low rolls.

If you're behind, Improved Initiative moves you ahead.

Cheers, -- N
 

A paragon feat should be better tham an heroic one, and it does not seems to be, unless...
No, I don't agree that it needs to be better in a strictly mathematical sense. Improved Initiative could be proven to be better, but because Danger Sense is unnamed and stacks with Improved Initiative, it's right to make it a paragon tier feat.
 

Chances are, if you're taking Danger Sense, you're a player who cares about his initiative so you've already taken Improved Intiative. And you're not going to want to featswap Improved Initiative out, because you're going to want both.

Saying one is better than the other in unnamed circumstances is foolish. The idea that every feat must be the best feat in slot for all builds is foolish. Different abilities excel in different situations, abstract math can't really cover that too well.
 

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