D&D 4E In 4e combat, is an ooze as tall as a human?

[Nail]

Last night our party was attacked by 2 Ochre Jellies and 4 Shadowhunter Bats. During combat, my fighter pushed an ooze behind a bat that was next to me, then I shifted further away from the 'bat and ooze.

I said, "Now the ooze is closer to the bat than to me. It will attack the bat!"

The DM said, "The ooze isn't tall enough to reach the bat that just attacked you."

I disagreed. If I can attack the bat (which I had just done), then the orche jelly could attack the bat (it is size large).

Thoughts?

 

[logopolis]

I disagreed. If I can attack the bat (which I had just done), then the orche jelly could attack the bat (it's size large).

Well, it's up to the DM to determine what the jelly wants to attack, but I see no reason why the jelly couldn't attack the bat. If you could reach it, so should the jelly.

I wouldn't think height is an issue, anyway. When I think about how an ochre jelly would attack, I imagine it extruding a slimy tentacle and whacking someone with it or wrapping it around a character's head.

 

[cmbarona]

This is tricky. Mechanics-wise, it seems it should work. Given exception-based design, if an ochre jelly is large, it should be able to reach anything a large creature can, unless otherwise stated. So I voted for the first option, and I think ultimately a DM should allow it. However, the MM text says that they can't even climb stairs, so that's confusing. Flavor-wise, it depends on why they can't climb stairs. Is it a height problem or a traction problem? Or just a laziness problem?

 

[Lord Ernie]

Jellies stretch. That's why they can reach and smack things around, threaten areas, and so on.

 

[frankthedm]

IIRC the ochre jelly entry specify it can't even climb stairs so rearing up a psudopod to strike a bat sounds outside it's capabilities as well.

 

[Milambus]

This creature is a slithering mass of orange-brown goo about 1 foot tall and 8 feet in diameter.

Most PCes are taller than 5 foot, therefore they take up two vertical squares, while the Ochre only takes up one vertical square since it is 1 foot tall. So I could see a bat flying out of reach of the Ochre but still being within reach of the PCes.

However, by that logic a dwarf or halfling may not be able to reach them either.

 

[Drkfathr1]

Ugh. What little fluff we get in the MM leaves us with issues like this.

I guess its really up to the DM to decide what's possible, but as a DM, I would rule that a large creature can easily reach something you could. In fact, a medium ooze/jelly would be able to as well, since they attack by reaching out with psuedo-pods.

But I guess ultimately that's an individual DM's perogative based on his/her vision of what the monster is.

 

[Nail]

Ugh. What little fluff we get in the MM leaves us with issues like this.

In my case, the DM wasn't citing MM fluff. He was doing his best to stay with the RAW and mechanics as written in the monster stat block. He's a good DM, and we all like the consistancy the rules-as-written (can) provide.

For example, once the ochre jelly was bloodied and split, we had 2 size Large Ochre Jellies to dance around. (You'll note that the monster stat block doesn't say the split 'Jellies are a different size than the original. Bizarre.)

If we take the fluff text (above the monster stat block) to the logical conclusion, a PC would be able to stand on a stair step above the ochre jelly and attack the 'jelly with impunity.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Most PCes are taller than 5 foot, therefore they take up two vertical squares, while the Ochre only takes up one vertical square since it is 1 foot tall. So I could see a bat flying out of reach of the Ochre but still being within reach of the PCes.

Umm where in the books did you find vertical squares? There are no cubes that I have seen in 4E, just a grid and you can have a height if you are flying. Did I miss something...won't be the first time

And the Ooze can reach, unless it specifically says in its description that it cannot one larger creature can do the same as an other large creature, in the same way that you can push an ooze it can reach a flying bat IMO

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Umm where in the books did you find vertical squares? There are no cubes that I have seen in 4E, just a grid and you can have a height if you are flying. Did I miss something...won't be the first time

I am guessing he means if we put the grid vertically, a PC over 5 feet would take up 2 squares, seeing how a square is 5 feet.