Initiative - once/battle or every round?

[Scion]

The randomness issue that is detrimental is that sometimes people will go twice in a row. Since pc's run across many more enemies and will go through many more rolls they are much more likely for this to happen to them in a bad way. Hence the extra randomness is bad for them. Same with most random aspects in the game.

Perhaps someone will explain it better, but that is at least one instance where it is very bad for the pc's. Single troll in cyclic? bad, but there can be worse. Single troll who gets two full rounds in a row of attacking? might just kill a pc or two during that time. Bad.

 

[Philip]

This is the 4th or 5th time someone has stated this and I just don't see it. If, to use your argument, it is random, how can it work against the PCs, or the monsters for that matter? Random is random.

You are correct, random is random. But this is to say: 'if you game long enough and go through many encounters with randomness (as the PCs do) even rare events will happen.' There will be a time when all the enemies in a difficult battle are the last to act in one round and first to act in the subsequent round. At that time PCs will be killed because they are unable to respond. I don't know of any properly played dragon in a challenging encounter who will not kill a single PC when given two rounds of full attacks, for example.

As I stated earlier, what ACTUALLY happens is the speedy guys (PCs *and* monsters) tend to get slotted where they belong, which is at a higher init. Since generally it is the PCs with the extraordinary abilities (higher dex, improved init, etc) they tend to go first.

I think you still suffer from the cyclical initiative fallacy. Going last in the first round (when rolling initiative once each combat) is effectively going first in the second and each subsequent round. Initiative only matters in the first round, really!

When I played 3.0 I used small cards with the characters and monsters names on it, which I laid openly on the table so that every could see the initiative order. Whenever somebody used Refocus I purposely placed them at the end of the initiative order, just to make a point. Some players would complain, because they said they wanted to be first to act, not last. I said it they WERE first to act. It didn't make any difference between being first the next round or last this round: that's why its called cyclical. It took a lot of sessions before some players got the point and gave up using Refocus and just delayed or readied instead when they wanted another place in the initiative order.

Players who roll badly for their character are never penalized 'for the whole combat'. They are just penalized the first round. When rolling initiative each round, they might possible roll badly more than once per encounter, so your method actually penalizes your players more. Although your method probably gives the players the illusion of having an advantage or 'correcting' a bad roll, so it might be psychologically more satisfying, and the game is about having fun after all.

 

[Darklone]

We thought about it. But with up to 9 players, rolling for initiative each round.... naaaah.

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

Darklone you have a lot of players in my group we are 5 players all DMs do a campaign is very dificult. but with 9 players I cannot do you are great

 

[Li Shenron]

Just wondering - my group has always done init each round. We tried once/battle when we started 3e, but quickly went back. We found it makes the fight more interesting and variable.

Comments?

We normally play with Initiative 1/combat, but one of us uses 1/round when it is his turn to be the DM (he also has everyone declare what he is going to do for the round, in reverse Init order, to give an advantage to the ones with higher Init).

I think that round-based Initiative doesn't make the combat more interesting and variable, it just makes it more random. It complicates rules, and slightly unbalance things like spells. It opens the chance for someone to have 2 consecutive turns, which is never a good thing for the game IMHO.

Keep in mind that the combat system is actually designed with the idea that Initiative is constant during the battle, and can only be voluntarily lowered if someone wishes so.