D&D 5E Initiative should be a skill.
- Thread starter Rune
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The Myopic Sniper
Hero
I like the idea, personally; but I am guessing the concern is that it becomes a must have skill for everyone which they will then have to balance by giving high level monsters bonuses to initiative or massively inflated HP. A high level party with five members with this skill maxed and the appropriate skill feats to support it would probably be guaranteed to get in five hits before vs any solo monster.
How many characters take the Improved Initiative feat?
For some it's a must have always-on bonus. But for others (e.g. the "Power Gamer's 3.5 Warrior Strategy Guide") it's a dead choice that is at the low end of the scale.
It should be a feat if it makes the game more interesting. If it doesn't (Drive, I'm looking at you) it shouldn't be a skill.
For some it's a must have always-on bonus. But for others (e.g. the "Power Gamer's 3.5 Warrior Strategy Guide") it's a dead choice that is at the low end of the scale.
It should be a feat if it makes the game more interesting. If it doesn't (Drive, I'm looking at you) it shouldn't be a skill.
keterys
First Post
Initiative is almost always extremely valuable. Its value, roughly speaking, is the % of time it lets you "win" init over your enemies (say 5*# you gain) divided by the number of turns per encounter.
So, in 10 round encounters it's not that big a deal. In 2 round encounters, it's an extremely big deal.
So far, encounters are resolved in low numbers of rounds (much like my experience with 3e and 4e), making initiative one of the most important rolls of the combat deciding whether a PC gets to act once, twice, or three times in most combats.
P.S. So far one of the most hilarious points of playtesting occurred when I let the halfling monk who took Drive use it on a barrel of water down the street to put out a fire.
So, in 10 round encounters it's not that big a deal. In 2 round encounters, it's an extremely big deal.
So far, encounters are resolved in low numbers of rounds (much like my experience with 3e and 4e), making initiative one of the most important rolls of the combat deciding whether a PC gets to act once, twice, or three times in most combats.
P.S. So far one of the most hilarious points of playtesting occurred when I let the halfling monk who took Drive use it on a barrel of water down the street to put out a fire.
I agree with you, though I recognize other views exist. Is Improved Init a must-have feat as a result, though? I'm not sure it is, but I'm happy to be corrected.
It is a feat that I want to take disproportionately often, but I think I might be alone.
It is a feat that I want to take disproportionately often, but I think I might be alone.
keterys
First Post
With only such a few feats, that's somewhat unclear. Your primary shtick working is of primary concern.
Even if it's usually 2 round combats, so 20% of the time it nets you another turn, making you 10% more effective, that may still compare with Charge or Spring Attack letting you act effectively 33% more often or Warding Polearm letting you dominate a corridor.
It's much harder to argue that for, say, Martial Arts which is almost useless, or Read Lips which shouldn't be in the same bucket at all.
Even if it's usually 2 round combats, so 20% of the time it nets you another turn, making you 10% more effective, that may still compare with Charge or Spring Attack letting you act effectively 33% more often or Warding Polearm letting you dominate a corridor.
It's much harder to argue that for, say, Martial Arts which is almost useless, or Read Lips which shouldn't be in the same bucket at all.
...and if that's so, then there's no need to make it a skill.
(I'm with you on read lips; martial arts I can see a character choosing for good good fun).
(I'm with you on read lips; martial arts I can see a character choosing for good good fun).
keterys
First Post
Oh, Read Lips can be good fun too, in the right campaign.
Their opportunity cost is just disproportionate. Martial Arts lets you act like you're cooler, but you've spent a feat to have a short sword. Except it's worse than the magic short sword you would have found within a couple levels. Or any number of weapons more effective than a short sword.
But, in that rare "we woke up alone and unarmed in a cell" scenario it might help. Or your casters might dominate that section.
Their opportunity cost is just disproportionate. Martial Arts lets you act like you're cooler, but you've spent a feat to have a short sword. Except it's worse than the magic short sword you would have found within a couple levels. Or any number of weapons more effective than a short sword.
But, in that rare "we woke up alone and unarmed in a cell" scenario it might help. Or your casters might dominate that section.
The Myopic Sniper
Hero
Instead of being a skill or a feat, they could go the opposite way and making it a static scaling bonus by class like the Attack and Spellcasting bonus. Some classes would get the full +1 to +5 progression (Rogues, Monks, etc), some would get it slower and others not at all. Maybe there could be class features that would allow for ability scores than other than dex to be used as the ability bonus. You could still have feats that would give advantage on initiative rolls in certain situations.
Chris_Nightwing
First Post
I definitely like the idea of initiative using ability scores other than Dex. Wis would be suitable when in standoff situation and what matters more is assessing the intentions of the group. Int would be suitable when arriving in an existing melee and tactics matter more than acting quickly.
Whether it should be a skill or scaling bonus I don't know. Scaling bonuses are basically 'you don't get a choice' and I think make it difficult to choose a character who has a feature that's unusual for their class. Skills aren't quite right yet, but could offer a better option - but then personally I'd make attack bonus and magic bonus skills, even if they were a separate class of skills that weren't competing with Hide or Drive.
Whether it should be a skill or scaling bonus I don't know. Scaling bonuses are basically 'you don't get a choice' and I think make it difficult to choose a character who has a feature that's unusual for their class. Skills aren't quite right yet, but could offer a better option - but then personally I'd make attack bonus and magic bonus skills, even if they were a separate class of skills that weren't competing with Hide or Drive.
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