D&D 4E Inquiry: How do 4E fans feel about 4E Essentials?

The use of implements meant that, for once, a Wizard's gear actually has an impact on their performance and their 'fighting style' for lack of a better term. Just like how a Sword or Hammer fighters play differently. They moved the bat guano and other minutiae to rituals and kept fighting more slick and simple... And I think the implement Wizards would have made more interesting 5e subclass than the 8 repetitive ones we got in PHB1.

And then they had to go and try to retcon all the damn School of Magic stuff in... bleh. This was such a blatant appeal to grognards, along the vanishing of rituals... I was really not a fan. It didn't bring anything to 4e and I feel like they were the dumbest thing to base 5e Wizard subclasses on. (They do work great on the new Sorcerers and define the multi-class style subclasses)
The problem is that although there is a little thematic resonance to wizards having staffs and wands there isn't much thematic resonance in comparing them; in Lord of the Rings wizards carry staves as does Malificent while Harry potter wizards carry wands. Anyone, however, could tell you the difference between a necromancer, an illusionist, and a diviner and, while they might not know the word, an evoker's also pretty obvious.

If your goal is accessibility for new players then although the whole "There are eight schools of magic and these are in opposition and you can't cast from opposed schools" thing is silly (and not coincidentally dumped by 5e) most of the schools themselves are good.
Of course the Mage is powerful, it's a WIZARD after all, right? Don't you know Wizards are supposed to be the best class and if they aren't... well it's not D&D! Right?

/s
Quite! /s
 

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On a different note - I actually have some data on the races & classes of the characters in my many, many game sessions during 4e's LFR (Living Forgotten Realms) run.

class_is_Essentials... count
no... 424 (92%)
yes... 35 (8%)
TOTAL... 459

So this does not mean that I played with 459 unique different characters during my LFR time! I just did a crude dump of every line item... so for example my friend's dragonborn ardent has 8 rows in the table, not just 1.

Anyway, interpret this as "roughly 8% of the times that Joshua sat at an LFR table, there was an Essentials class in play". Which is pretty close to my off-the-cuff guess that Essentials classes made up 10% or fewer of what people actually played. At least in my experience.
 

The problem is that although there is a little thematic resonance to wizards having staffs and wands there isn't much thematic resonance in comparing them; in Lord of the Rings wizards carry staves as does Malificent while Harry potter wizards carry wands. Anyone, however, could tell you the difference between a necromancer, an illusionist, and a diviner and, while they might not know the word, an evoker's also pretty obvious.

If your goal is accessibility for new players then although the whole "There are eight schools of magic and these are in opposition and you can't cast from opposed schools" thing is silly (and not coincidentally dumped by 5e) most of the schools themselves are good.

Quite! /s
Meh, what the heck is a 'transmuter'? lol. I mean, OK, I can kind of give you some sort of answer, but it isn't thematic of ANYTHING. If you wanted to have a "School of Alchemy" that might be something. If you wanted to build some sort of conceptual framework in lore and meta-setting around schools, or something, that would be SOMETHING, but as it is, they're just pretty much throw-away. When I ran a 5e Mountain Dwarf Wizard I made him a 'transmuter', but it was very close to meaningless, and also clearly suboptimal at the same time. It might as well have been 'staff wizard' vs 'orb wizard'.

And in 4e, well, he could have been a staff wizard, which at least would have suited his penchant for getting in the thick of things. As a mage? What? The schools are no more mechanically significant than the implements, though at least they were followed up with some minor support. I'd have rather have seen some improvements to the implement choices, why change directions? It certainly wasn't adding something to the game... Quite the contrary when Necromancy was weirdly grafted onto only the Mage, making it unavailable to anyone who didn't specifically use the Essentials version of the wizard. Meanwhile a lot of the other stuff in that book only works with non-Essentials! GGGGAAAAHHHHH!
 

What are you counting as Essentials Classes? Just out of the three books or also including Shadowfell, Feywild, and Elemental Chaos? But I'm not very surprised it was that low at an LFR table tbh.
 



Data by class. Yes, there were a lot of hybrid-happy folks at our tables. (And also no consistency in how I input this data, LOL!)

classCOUNTA of class
???1
ardent8
artificer4
assassin5
assassin | rogue2
assassin | warlock1
assassin|warlock1
avenger10
barb | vampire1
barbarian17
barbarian | fighter3
bard5
bard (skald) | vampire1
bard | vampire3
bard|vampire5
battlemind9
blackguard1
blackguard | bard1
bladesinger1
cavalier1
cleric53
cleric | assassin1
druid2
executioner|warlock1
fighter40
fighter | swordmage1
fighter/cleric1
fighter|barbarian5
genasi1
hexblade11
invoker4
knight1
mage2
monk5
paladin31
paladin|ranger2
paladin|warden1
paladin|warlock1
psion6
ranger14
ranger | fighter1
rogue33
runepriest2
scout1
seeker3
shaman7
shaman|ardent1
slayer1
sorcerer15
sorceress8
swordmage21
swordmage | wizard1
swordmage|warlock4
swordmage|wizard1
thief1
vampire1
warden12
warlock11
warlock|assassin1
warlord31
warlord|paladin1
warpriest3
wizard35
wizard|artificer1
Grand Total459

(And yes it drives me crazy there is one, and only one, class = '???'. You do not know how much I want to go back in time and grab that player's sheet to see what it was.)
 


Meh, what the heck is a 'transmuter'? lol. I mean, OK, I can kind of give you some sort of answer, but it isn't thematic of ANYTHING.
I could say the same about an "orb wizard" - except that transmutation, the changing of one thing into another, which reflects both alchemy and shapeshifting, is actually more strongly based than the symbolism round the orb. And this only makes the point that the worst of the old school schools is about as thematic as the best of the implement wizards.
When I ran a 5e Mountain Dwarf Wizard I made him a 'transmuter', but it was very close to meaningless, and also clearly suboptimal at the same time. It might as well have been 'staff wizard' vs 'orb wizard'.
So you picked one of the eight schools and you picked the worst one - and even to you that's about a match for one of 4e's basic three implements. But if you don't find the transmuter thematic of anything then why in the name of the little black pig did you pick it? This reminds me of the people who had decided that 4e was stupid before they played it and picked the most stupid options they could to "prove" their preconceptions.

And I do mean you picked out the single worst school in 5e. If we look at the RPGBot breakdown of wizard subclasses they're rated on a red, orange, green, blue scale. Literally the only red rated wizard subclass in 5e is the transmuter - and the only orange rated one is the school of graviturgy from a Critical Role book.
And in 4e, well, he could have been a staff wizard, which at least would have suited his penchant for getting in the thick of things. As a mage? What? The schools are no more mechanically significant than the implements, though at least they were followed up with some minor support.
If he wanted to be a wizard who had a penchant for getting into the thick of things he could have chosen to be either a Bladesinger or a War Wizard. Or, if you were restricted to the PHB, he could have been an Abjurer who as their second level feature gains some temporary hit points every time they cast an abjuration spell. Now that's both more thematic than anything either the transmuter or the staff wizard gets and would have been a better fit for your character.

The idea that the schools are no more mechanically significant than the implements simply isn't true - it's just that Transmutation in specific is the worst school; I've mentioned the abjurer. Some highlights:
  • The Diviner at level 2 gets to roll two dice at the start of a session and swap any dice rolled in the session with those
  • The Enchanter gets a hypnotic gaze at L2 and the ability to redirect attacks at L6
  • The Necromancer gets to raise better undead with Animate Dead at L6 and gets to heal when they kill things at level 2.
  • The Illusionist gets to make their illusions part real at level 14
  • The Evoker gets to protect their allies by sculpting their evocations at L2 and does more damage with them at L10.
All of these are meaningful mechanical differences that underline the character concepts and are both more interesting mechanically and thematically than the orb/staff/wand of 4e. Yes, the transmuter was a bit of a turkey.
I'd have rather have seen some improvements to the implement choices, why change directions? It certainly wasn't adding something to the game...
Because there's very little thematic resonance to the implements. So they couldn't really be fixed - but being able to be a Pyromancer Evoker was fun and thematic in a way that the orb wizard never was. You could play the striker burninator wizard.

The genuinely bad thing about the mage and why I avoided them was that they didn't come with Ritual Caster.
Quite the contrary when Necromancy was weirdly grafted onto only the Mage, making it unavailable to anyone who didn't specifically use the Essentials version of the wizard.
False. In both 4e and and 5e any wizard can cast any spell from the wizard list if they know it and mage spells were wizard spells and wizard spells were mage spells. If you wanted to be a staff wizard with a rack of necromancy spells you could. It wasn't weird that the school specialism was grafted on to the school specialist version of the wizard.

And honestly the necromancer specialism in 4e was pretty bad. At level 1 you gained two temps for hitting foes with necromancy (the 5e version where you regain hit points for killing (2* spell level or 3* spell level if a necromancy spell) is IMO more evocative). At level 5 you gained +2 to two skills. And at level 10 you got to ignore necrotic resistance. You could play a perfectly good necromancer with none of that.
Meanwhile a lot of the other stuff in that book only works with non-Essentials! GGGGAAAAHHHHH!
And all the necromancy spells in that book work with non-Essentials wizards as well. Where's the problem?
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
If he wanted to be a wizard who had a penchant for getting into the thick of things he could have chosen to be either a Bladesinger or a War Wizard. Or, if you were restricted to the PHB, he could have been an Abjurer who as their second level feature gains some temporary hit points every time they cast an abjuration spell.
When I was trying to build a Swordmage I noticed that I couldnt get shields (Abjurer) and attacks with Intelligence in melee(artificer), Swordbond (EK) etc etc without a ton of multiclass shenanigans and never did find away to teleport most of the time.. I also couldn't get a white lotus repost (for that prickly fun) but it was less important than the teleporting. (even nothing really like my favorite swordburst)
 

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