Inspiration is a PC-on-PC Social Skills Question

I find this very interesting.

Your Warlord doesn't want anyone demanding things of him, watching over him, or having to belong to any group or organization.
No, Twig, you're conflating character concept with player agency. His concern is with the former, specifically what is meant by a concept not being 'magical,' yours is with the latter.

A Warlord, a solider or noble, for instance, might very well be part of a military or social hierarchy and have demands on him, allies or rivals watching him, or various other sorts of relationships to the setting, NPCs, and other PCs. That's true of every character. It's particularly true of AL characters who choose a Faction, for instance, and has nothing to do with whether the class is 'magical' or not, which was the distinction Bawylie was drawing.

That's very different from wielding supernatural/magical power granted by a deity or pact patron or bloodline or initiation into occult secrets or the like, whether those powers come with strings or not (and really, the way most of the PH is phrased it seems like it's usually not).

The reason I keep posting is to explain why not all people are going to like the idea of the Warlord
Not everyone has to like the idea of a class. I don't like the idea of psionics in a fantasy game, I think it's out of place.
and why it shouldn't be forced on them.
It can't be forced on them, so that's a non-issue. Whether a given class sees play at a given table is up to that table. If we assume the Mystic and Warlord are the only two new classes that get introduced to 5e, then any given table of 6 players is going to exclude more than half the available classes, anyway. Doesn't seem like it is or ever would become difficult to avoid a specific single class you find objectionable.

Now, if you had problems with all neo-Vancian casters, you'd have a more serious issue...

The pro-Warlord faction seems incapable of seeing how it would be a problem for other people.
Not liking the idea does not make it a problem. You don't like it, you don't use it. There's an extra leap you're making there, from you not liking it, to it existing being a problem solely because you don't like it. The former is fine, you don't even need an explanation. The latter isn't, it smacks of OneTrueWayism and wanting to dictate to everyone what they can play.

And yet I think we can all agree that the Romantic class would be pretty bad without the consent of the target character's player. But if both players were on board, then it could be a really fun class. And who are we to deprive them of the fun?
The kind of relationship implied is a sensitive one for many people, yes. The class you describe could theoretically turn into the Stalker or even Rapist class without the consent of the romantic interest. So, yeah, you're strolling through a cultural minefield with that one, especially once you postulate non-consent.

But, the idea of PCs having romantic relationships - to whatever degree of detail the group is comfortable with - is hardly out of line, and some systems have even given benefits (and disadvantages) for it.

It's the same thing with the Warlord.
Not in the least, no. The premise of D&D is an heroic fantasy game with a party overcoming challenges together. Teamwork of some degree is assumed. Those challenges include killing a lot of creatures, many of them sentient, and taking their stuff. Which our culture finds less troublesome than dealing with a romantic relationship. Whatever that says about society, aside, the Warlord is a much more natural addition to a D&D party than the oddball class you postulate.

If a group likes playing with the Warlord then full steam ahead! Have fun! But if even one player doesn't want to...
Then it's up to that player whether to make a stink about it and possibly stomp on several other players' fun, seek a group with different interests, or tolerate those other players' fun and seek his own. That's not a unique quality of a hypothetical Warlord class, though. Paladins run up against that one big time, Clerics to a lesser extent, and Warlocks from the other end of the spectrum. Thieves & Assassins & Barbarians can have intra-party issues both IC and OOC. What you're describing is nothing to do with the Warlord, it's just part of playing an RPG.
 
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No, Twig, you're conflating character concept with player agency. His concern is with the former, specifically what is meant by a concept not being 'magical,' yours is with the latter.

A Warlord, a solider or noble, for instance, might very well be part of a military or social hierarchy and have demands on him, allies or rivals watching him, or various other sorts of relationships to the setting, NPCs, and other PCs. That's true of every character. It's particularly true of AL characters who choose a Faction, for instance, and has nothing to do with whether the class is 'magical' or not, which was the distinction Bawylie was drawing.

That's very different from wielding supernatural/magical power granted by a deity or pact patron or bloodline or initiation into occult secrets or the like, whether those powers come with strings or not (and really, the way most of the PH is phrased it seems like it's usually not).

So it doesn't matter if you get magic through hard work and rigorous study or have it given by a patron of some sort? You just don't like magic?

That's your prerogative, of course, but it's like a modern soldier refusing to call in an airstrike because he doesn't like technology. Sure he can go without, but why would he?
 

And yet I think we can all agree that the Romantic class would be pretty bad without the consent of the target character's player.
A warrior following around his beloved that does not return his advances.... perhaps a bit emo, but i don't see any issue with that class.

So no, i don't agree.
 

Lord Twig said:
And yet I think we can all agree that the Romantic class would be pretty bad without the consent of the target character's player.

A warrior following around his beloved that does not return his advances.... perhaps a bit emo, but i don't see any issue with that class.

So no, i don't agree.

Wow.

Nothing I can say to this accept that we will just have to agree to disagree.
 

Wow.

Nothing I can say to this accept that we will just have to agree to disagree.
It actually reminds me of some clerics i've seen.

Oh, wonderful <X>, i am overjoyed to be in your presence. I will do anything you want of me oh wondeful <x>, simply ask.

I just don't see anything the warlord does that a paladin, bard, enchanter, and some clerics don't already do.

I mean, what is +Cha to saving throw? The paladin's mere charming presence is letting you dodge fireballs. He's so influential that not even an elder dragon can scare you if he's nearby.


The only real difference, is that he doesn't use spells.
 

So it doesn't matter if you get magic through hard work and rigorous study or have it given by a patron of some sort? You just don't like magic?

That's your prerogative, of course, but it's like a modern soldier refusing to call in an airstrike because he doesn't like technology. Sure he can go without, but why would he?

Sure, you can go without extra offensive and defensive buffs from your warlord compatriot, but why would you?
 

It actually reminds me of some clerics i've seen.

Oh, wonderful <X>, i am overjoyed to be in your presence. I will do anything you want of me oh wondeful <x>, simply ask.

I have never seen a Cleric played this way. There is respect for their patron deity of course, but it isn't crawling-on-the-ground, sniveling, self-debasing worship. We leave that to the Evil gods.

I just don't see anything the warlord does that a paladin, bard, enchanter, and some clerics don't already do.

I mean, what is +Cha to saving throw? The paladin's mere charming presence is letting you dodge fireballs. He's so influential that not even an elder dragon can scare you if he's nearby.

The only real difference, is that he doesn't use spells.

The Paladin uses magic. It's the Warlord that would rely on you believing he is so wonderful that you don't need to be afraid.
 



The Paladin uses magic. It's the Warlord that would rely on you believing he is so wonderful that you don't need to be afraid.
Those are both untrue.

The paladin's aura says nothing about magic. It says the source of a paladins power is his conviction. The strength of which is so great, that simply being near him let's you dodge fireballs. His force of will so great, that everyone around him becomes fearless. Extraordinary, sure, but you can't dispel it.

No warlord ability says anything about how other people need to feel towards you. In fact 4e specifically said that it did NOT make you a leader, and that any respect was done by role playing. It was burried and easy to miss, sure. And "leader" was missleading, yes. But it still didn't require you to do that.


The 3.5 marshal has the same ability. +Cha to saving throw. Though you had to pick which one (fort/will/ref).
 

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