Into the New World - OOC - Calling NMF and Masquerade!

[Shayuri]

I'll just say this:

We're explorers, and sometimes what we find is dangerous. And yes, sometimes that means what we find should be put down.

I don't mind that there's disagreement about when that is. I think it's fine. It adds flavor, and provides opportunity for RP.

What I mind is the player, Dire Lemming, for some reason holding it against us.

Lighten up! Lets work it out IC...there's no cause...absolutely no cause...to take any of this into the OOC realms. I'm not making any judgements about you, Lemming. All I ask is the same courtesy.

Is that so hard?

 

[Dire Lemming]

It is hard, because I feel like I'm being ganged up against. Everyone gets defensive when that happens, even if they understand why it is and can talk about it rationally. Everyone else seems to have the same interpretation of this game, the DM included, and I don't share it. I was quite certain up until now that everyone else thought the same way I did. So this is both surprising and disappointing.

I will try to keep this IC, but that seems like it'll get my character killed or left behind.

If it explains anything, if this were a face to face game I'd have likely just shut up and let it all happen. Because I know, that someone would quickly just tell me, the player, to drop it. That and getting my character all emotional would get me all emotional.

 

[Shayuri]

Well, I can say with surety that if you're being ganged up on, I'm not part of that.

You posted some stuff, I posted my reaction. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of story. No one ever invited me to the secret meeting where we plotted to undermine and destroy your character.

I think the FORCE of your reaction stirred up some equal and opposing forces, which may be responsible for you feeling defensive. I mean, lets face it...you came -that- close to calling us all irresponsible little kiddy-gamers...and a case could be made that you were -implying- precisely that...so I think it's a little naive not to expect some kickback.

That said, I don't get the impression anyone wants to do you or your character harm, nor exclude him or you from the game.

Certainly I don't, IC or OOC.

My reaction to all this is to suspect, rather deeply, that there are issues here that go beyond the obvious. The force and singlemindedness of your emotional response seems way out of kilter with the actual gravity of the situation. From what I can see, based on what you're saying, you're doing two things that seem to be blowing this event up to Texas Grande Size in your mind.

1) You're making very broad assumptions on what this incident "means about us." That is, because we reacted violently to being assaulted in our sleep, we must therefore be violent people who will continue to be violent in all other possible scenarios.

I hope I don't have to point out the logical fallacy in that.

2) You're investing these critters -very generously- in terms of assuming what their motivations in attacking are. Somehow, they've become the Satans in your own private Paradise Lost...the tragic, misunderstood heroes who only wanted to protect what was theirs, and were subjected to unjustifiably brutal punishment for the crime.

It's equally (and I would suggest, possibly more so) possible that these critters were hungry, saw some sleeping sacks of blood and meat, and thought, "Hey! Lets get us summa that!"

Now, I don't mind holding onto -the possibility- that these creatures might be communicable...that we might make more amicable contact. I don't even think you're outside the reasonable to be somewhat upset (in character) that none of us seem terribly interested in trying to make peace with them. If that's who Enko is...lets run with that.

What I take issue with is that all Enko's, and yours, arguments revolve around these assumptions being true. Not just possible. True. This leads me to suspect that, in your mind, you've already accepted it as being true. So what are you going to do when, say, tomorrow night, we find out that...oops...nope. They're just evil little trollthings who wanted to kill us. Are you going to construe that as an attack on you too?

I...gah. This is already longer than it should be.

I beg you, Dire...I -beg- you. Just ease off a bit. Unclench. It's a -game-. So things didn't go your way this time...have some faith. Most importantly, try to find a way to use the conflicts this reveals -to have fun-. Not to alienate or isolate others...or ourselves.

 

[Zurai]

Alright, I guess I'll have to take matters into my own IC hands a little. There'll be an IC post shortly with Artemisia finally coming clean. Hopefully that'll help smooth things over.

@Lemming: There'll be plenty of peaceful exploration in this campaign. In this chapter, even. I am not going to DM a pure hack'n'slash, because the entire point of this campaign is to provide an RP basis for my 4E campaign world, or at least this section of it. This particular encounter was intended to be a "welcome to the wonderful world of evil spirits" encounter, after you guys already had two "welcome to the wonderful world of mysterious, but not malign spirits" encounters already in that day.

For the OOC!!!!! record, the three encounters I rolled on this first day were dryad, dryad, goblins. The 'goblins' aren't actual goblins, but I used goblin stats for them; they're actually a kind of unseelie fey called grimlings or grimelings. Artemisia has some insight in that regard. My personal philosophy about encounters is that combat encounters should be half or less of the actual encounters present in an adventure, so take that into account as the game progresses.

Further OOC!!!!! record: Artemisia is not a ranger or fighter or scout, as I'd wager you all thought She's actually a Paladin with the Noonshadow Forest as her patron spirit. She is one level higher than you all, but that won't last long. How/why she is a Paladin is one of the potential plot hooks I left up to you all to pursue; Enko already started down that path. I'm telling you this now so that her "revelations" in the IC thread don't seem quite so much like a Deus Ex Machina.

 

[Dire Lemming]

EDIT: This was in response to Shayuri.

The reason I'm getting upset out of character is that even out of character you continually misinterpret what I'm saying in such a way as to make it seem unreasonable. I've repeatedly stated that it wasn't our self defense that was bad. It was the cold blooded killing of a helpless and defeated creature for no purpose other than so that it would be dead. We beat the living craplights out of it in self defense, fine, but then when it tried to flee we shot it up and slit it's throat. Right after Enko had brought it back from the brink of death for that matter. It's not even vengeance. It's pure maliciousness.

I'm not saying that these creatures are definitely "the tragic, misunderstood heroes who only wanted to protect what was theirs", I'm saying that the only logical conclusion is that they see us as a threat. It's completely irrational to assume right off the bat that the only possible reason these things could be taking offense to our presence is that they're "Evil" especially considering that our culture does not even have concepts such as good and evil.

Please, I'm ok with you disagreeing with me, but at least try to understand what you're disagreeing with.

 

[Shayuri]

I am trying...that's why I'm still here, talking.

And it's good! Because that last post of yours helped a bit to clear things up!

I still think your take on things is weighted, but at least I can respond to that now.

Your charges of maliciousness are unfounded though! Seriously. Now, I didn't shoot it...but if I'd had a bow I would have, so I will explain why I would have. The character who actually DID shoot may have other motivations, but I can't speak to that.

Heat of the moment.

Now, if I sit at home and dispassionately analyze, I can see: Yes...there were others that escaped. Therefore, killing the escapee doesn't really change anything...it's not like he learned something the others didn't. It's not like he'll bring more that the others couldn't.

But if I'm roleplaying a young, adrenalin-soaked kid in the middle of a hostile forest at night, who just got woken up by a little gibbering freak who tried to stab me...and I'm holding a bow and suddenly that thing is getting away and it's running and...AH!

You bet I shoot it. Does that make me a horrible person? Well...I don't think so. I guess you have to make that call. But it doesn't make me malicious. That much, I am safe refuting.

---

I don't think I ever once said the word evil in conjunction with these critters...and if I did, it wouldn't have been in its larger moral sense, but rather in its smaller, adjective sense like "evil grin" or "evilly sharp." Simple fact: I have not once -assumed- what the motivations of these critters are. I have based all my statements based on our reactions to their -actions-. Not motivations. Just to keep the record straight.

So! To summarize:

Fleeing prisoner shot, but not because we're coldblooded or malicious. Hope that helps clear up the misunderstanding.

My apologies if I misportrayed you, and I accept yours for doing the same.

Lets all be friends!

 

[Zurai]

Alright, IC post up. Lemming, I sincerely apologize if you thought I was 'ganging up on you'. I was speaking from Artemisia's viewpoint. She, as you'll see once you read the IC post if you havn't already, has additional information that makes the matter a little more black and white for her than for you. Nothing of what I said about the discussion was intended to be "The DM Is Always Right And You DIRE LEMMING Are Wrong". It was a perspective on the discussion because I noted things that you were saying that did not mesh with how I thought I had presented the situation.

 

[Dire Lemming]

I really do want to agree with you Shayuri, but if Erin was not meaning to be malicious then why did she mock it's screams as 'Thane calmly raised his bow, stepped to the side and fired a single shot...'?

Erin yells after the thing, "Szas fhel!"

On her shoulders, Quoth half spreads his wings and cawps excitedly, "Szas fhel! Szas fhel!"

As Enko leaps in front of Artimisia...Thane calmly raises his own bow, steps to the side and fires a single shot...

[sblock=Zurai]I'm not sure how we're doing nonlethal with VP/WP, so if there's a nonlethal option Thane's taking it, but if not he's still shooting it. Subtract 4 from my roll if nonlethal is possible.

Into the New World Attack Roll (Post 362) (1d20+3=15)

[/sblock]

Ryon, his bow quite a distance away, draws the dagger at his belt and throws it at Thing #3.
Throwing Dagger at Thing #3 (1d20+3=21, 1d4+2=4)

"The time for games is over!"

See where I'm getting this idea?

Erin seems to be taunting it. Thane is specifically stated as being calm, and Ryon thinks Enko is just playing games.

 

[Shayuri]

She wasn't mocking it, man.

She was trying to communicate. It was the only "word" they'd said up until then. She was hoping that if she repeated something it found recognizable, it might stop, or react...or something.

There's that assuming thing, getting us into trouble again.

 

[Dire Lemming]

Well Enko figured it had something to do with Ryon, and that it was something bad. He'd assumed everyone else figured that out too, so Erin is going to have a hell of a time convincing him otherwise especially since he thinks they're all sadistic monsters, not that he even has a word for that. I guess I better see what the IC thread says.

Did you see the edits to my previous post?

We don't have such concepts as Sadism, War, or soldiers.