From Edena to Serpenteye: Long article: Unsolicited (?) attempt to help out
This post is going to be
difficult and messy. Bear with me, Serpenteye.
I am ... guessing ... that you are assigning PLs to each nation, like I did in the 3rd IR.
For example: Furyondy 10, Duchy of Ulek 3, Keoland 15, North Province 15, etc.
That's a guess, and I'm basing the entire rest of this post on my guess being right. I'm assuming that's how you're working it.
In the 3rd IR, I divided the Flanaess up like a RISK or Axis and Allies map, and I had some big areas (like Furyondy) and some little areas (like the Duchy of Ulek.) And I gave points (PLs, or Power Levels) to each one.
Now ...
In THIS IR, we have two separate situations.
1: We have a gigantic jigsaw puzzle of a map, with over a hundred pieces (or, areas.) Unless you have a very good geographic understanding of the Flanaess (I know you and I do, Serpenteye, but not all the others are familiar with the geography) you probably couldn't name a lot of those jigsaw pieces.
2: We have a lot of off-map nations. Many players currently do not even know these nations exist, much less where they are, or how to link to maps that show them.
There is nothing that I can do to help the other players more than I have.
To the players, I can only recommend they look at the map links, look at Greyhawk source material, ask questions via e-mail to other players (who just might know more about those countries and places), and otherwise do research on the subject of the Flanaess/Oerik/Oerth.
Also, the players who don't know might ask what a Crystal Sphere is, what Wildspace is, how many moons Oerth has, if there are other planets in the solar system, and so on. Some players might be able to answer the questions. (I don't remember the other worlds of Greyspace!)
But getting back to you, Serpenteye:
I don't know if this will be of any help, but here's what I'd do, or try to do - considering the complexity, I don't know if I could do it - to resolve problems I see:
1. I would establish what the PLs of the major nations of Oerth are.
2. I would look at that jigsaw map, and I'd assign PLs to each jigsaw piece as appropriate. For example, Furyondy is broken up into about 5 pieces on that map. If Furyondy had, say, a PL of 10, then I'd divide the 10 PL up among the 5 jigsaw pieces. Ditto for every other nation (and jigsaw piece) on the map.
3: THEN I would consider the jigsaw pieces that are not a part of any country. I would assign them PL values based on what I knew of them. If I knew nothing of them, I would grant them a basic PL on the assumption that SOMETHING lives under every rock in this setting (and probably, not a something you'd want to meet!) For example, take the desert that used to be the Suel Imperium: it seems worthless, right? But actually - just perhaps - colossal magical secrets lie under the desert sands, in the ruins of the ancient Suel Empire, and actually this chunk of real estate is actually worth a FORTUNE in PLs!
4: I would then deal with the off-map countries. I would treat each of them as a single jigsaw piece, with a correspondingly higher PL. After all, if it's the entire nation in one jigsaw piece, that jigsaw piece will both worth more than a jigsaw piece representing a fraction of Furyondy! See? If all of Erypt is one jigsaw piece, or Nippon, or Orcreich, or the Celestial Imperium, then certainly those off-map jigsaw pieces would be worth a lot more than a jigsaw piece representing a fifth of Furyondy!!
5: I would divide the oceans into arbitrary jigsaw pieces. Not a pretty prospect, but I'd do it. After all, the oceans are contested, and the undersea nations (Forsaken One's sahuagin nations, for example) have their own PLs.
6: Concerning Greyspace, I would - instead of dividing it into jigsaw pieces - would assign PLs to specific factions. If the Scro have a warfleet in Greyspace, it would have a PL, and count as one 'jigsaw' piece. Likewise for the Illithid Squid Ships, the Elven Imperial Armada, the Free Gith Mercenaries (not already a part of another power, like the Solistarim), and any other spelljamming groups.
5: If there are Astral or Ethereal Nations (such as the Githyanki and Githzerai) I would treat each of these as one 'jigsaw' piece.
6: If the IR ventures to Oerth's moon, Luna, I would treat the moon as having it's own separate nations and cultures, each a 'jigsaw' piece with it's own PL, and subject to conquest. If this is too much work, then simply treat Luna as having - say - 10 or 20 'jigsaw' pieces that could be occupied, and which have a base PL each. That way, when every player in the IR sends a conquering force to the moon, they get an automatic bonus for each 'jigsaw' piece they collect on the moon, and they can all fight over the moon as much as they please.
7: What goes for Luna, goes for the other planets (if you include them) in the system.
That is how I'd do it.
- - -
Now ... if you use the system above, something else is going to become frightfully apparent.
The question about Infiltration is: do I infiltrate a SINGLE jigsaw piece of my opponent's territory (a 5th of Furyondy, one of the 12 drow cities, northwest Aerdi, the Tilvanot Jungle, etc.) or do I infiltrate the ENTIRE power being played by that player?
I would recommend that Infiltration be of the ENTIRE power, and here's why:
If I must send a spy to each and every jigsaw piece of one of the player's powers on-map, isn't this unfair to those off-map?
After all, the off-map countries are single jigsaw pieces. If I infiltrate Orcreich, or Nippon, Erypt, the Celestium Imperium, etc., I get to infiltrate the whole country at once, because it is one jigsaw piece!
But if I try to infiltrate the powers on-map, I must infiltrate an endless number of little jigsaw pieces of their power, one at a time. Thus taking forever to do to them what I could do instantly to an off-map power.
Likewise, the numbers accounting will be a nightmare, if infiltration involves every one of those little jigsaw pieces. You, the Arbiter of the IR, must arbitrate what percentage of EACH and EVERY piece I have infiltrated (that little piece was worth 2 PL, and I get 10% of that, which is 0.2 PL ... and multiply this by a 100 as many different players infiltrate a hundred little jigsaw pieces of nations.) It's a nightmare!
But ...
If you infiltrate my ENTIRE power (including all conquests I have made) then accounting is made simple. You take my combined PL, and the infiltrator gets his cut of that.
This will DEFINITELY encourage infiltration! Nothing like sending in spies, and taking over an enemy power from within!!
And, needless to say, this will cause great consternation and alarm among all the powers, that it is so relatively EASY that an Infiltrator group can just walk in and take them over (witness the Scarlet Brotherhood's work in the Greyhawk Wars.)
- - -
I am still puzzling through the espionage rules. I am confused about them.
For some reason (don't ask why) I thought up the following rules, which I thought you might care to look at. Perhaps there is an idea or two in there that would help with the 5th IR. I don't know. (goes on puzzling through the espionage rules.)
Defender, First Turn
Each and every Turn, the Defender may allocate PL to detecting the Attacker's spy, enabling a dice roll to detect the spy. (1st Bidding War between the Attacker and the Defender.)
The Defender MUST detect the Attacker's spy to proceed to ejection/nullification of the Attacker's spy.
If the Defender discovered the Attacker's spy, he may spend PL to eject/nullify the Attacker's spy, enabling a dice roll to eject/nullify that spy (Second Bidding War between the Attacker and the Defender.) This applies to all discovered spies.
Defender, Second Turn:
As above, and:
If the Defender ejects/nullifies the Attacker's spy, any attempt at Corruption of the Defender's power by the Attacker is ruined, without need for a 3rd Bidding War. However, if the Attacker has ALREADY effected Corruption on the Defender, ejecting/nullifying the Attacker's spy does not negate or affect the Corruption in any way.
Defender, Third Turn:
As above, and:
The Defender may spend PL to lessen the Corruption of his power (levels of Corruption 1 through 5.) This assumes the Attacker has already Corrupted the Defender's power:
Level 1 Corruption gives the Attacker 10% of the Defender's PL.
Level 2 Corruption gives the Attacker 25% of the Defender's PL.
Level 3 Corruption gives the Attacker 50% of the Defender's PL.
Level 4 Corruption gives the Attacker 75% of the Defender's PL.
Level 5 Corruption gives the Attacker 90% of the Defender's PL.
Level 6 Corruption gives the Attacker 100% of the Defender's PL, and it cannot be broken (the Defending Power is now a possession of the Attacker.)
If the Defender succeeds in breaking the Corruption (levels 1 through 5, but not 6) then the Attacker loses 1 level of Corruption. If at level 1 Corruption, the Attacker loses all Corruptive influence and must start over.
This is resolved by dice. PL spent by the Attacker to Corrupt is countered by PL spent by the Defender to break the Corruption. This is known as the 3rd Bidding War between the Attacker and the Defender, and applies to all Corrupt/Break Corrupt attempts.
Defender, Fourth Turn:
As above. Etc.
-
Attacker, First Turn
Each and every Turn, the Attacker may spend PL on implanting spies in the Defender's power (in as many Defending powers as desired.)
Each and every Turn, the Attacker may allocate additional PL on protecting spies from detection by a Defending power, affecting the dice roll to detect the spy. (1st Bidding War between the Attacker and the Defender.)
Each and every Turn, the Attacker may allocate PL to prevent ejection/nullification of his spy, if the Defender has discovered that spy and is attempting to expel/nullify that spy, affecting the dice roll for expulsion/nullification (2nd Bidding War between the Attacker and the Defender.)
The Attacker must successfully have his spy implanted within the Defender's power for one full Turn before he can attempt a level 1 Corruption of the Defender's Power.
Attacker, Second Turn
As above, and:
The Attacker may spend PL to attempt a level 1 Corruption of the Defender's Power. (He may attempt to Corrupt as many Defending Powers as he pleases, as long as he had spies implanted therein for at least one full turn first prior to any Corruption attempts.) A dice roll resolves whether the Corruption effect is successful (3rd Bidding War between Attacker and Defender.)
If the Corruption was successful, the Attacker has achieved level 1 Corruption of the Defender. The Defender will know his power was corrupted, but there is nothing further he can do about it this turn. The actual level 1 Corruption will begin on the next turn.
If the Corruption was unsuccessful, the Attacker gains nothing, but may try again next turn.
Attacker, Third Turn
As above, and:
The Attacker may spend PL to attempt a level 2 Corruption of the Defender's Power. (He may attempt level 2 Corruption as many Defending Powers as he pleases, as long as he had previously Corrupted them to level 1) A dice roll resolves whether the Corruption effect is successful (3rd Bidding War between Attacker and Defender.)
If the Corruption was successful, the Attacker ups his level of Corruption of the Defender to level 2. The Defender knows this, but there is nothing further he can do about it this turn. The actual level 2 Corruption will begin on the next turn.
If the Corruption was unsuccessful, the Attacker loses one level of Corruption. If the Attacker was at level 2 Corruption, and striving for level 3, he falls to level 1. If the Attacker was at level 1 Corruption, and striving for level 2, he loses all his Corruption of the Defending power and must start his Corruption efforts over again.
Attacker, Fourth Turn
As above. Etc.
-
Interloper, Turn 1:
Each and every Turn, Interloper may spend PL on implanting spies in Defending powers (in as many Defending powers as desired.)
The Interloper is subject to having his spies detected and expelled/nullified, and he may expend PL to protect his spies (the 1st and 2nd Bidding Wars, except in this case between the Defender and the Interloper.)
- The Interloper must successfully have a spy implanted in the Defending Power, whether detected or not, full a full turn before he can Interfere.
- The Interloper must successfully have detected the Attacker's spy in order to Interfere (requiring a 1st Bidding War between the Interloper and the Attacker) although this requirement is voided if the Attacker freely tells the Interloper about the spy.
- There must be some manner of attack (placing a spy, attempting a Corruption) or defense (detecting a spy, expelling/nullifying a spy, lowering/breaking a Corruption) between Attacker and Defender for any Interference from the Interloper to be possible.
Interloper, Turn 2:
Each and every turn that he has a spy within a Defending Power, and otherwise meets all the above requirements, and all the other requirements above are met, the Interloper can do the following:
- He can Interfere with attempts to detect spies (the First Bidding War) either against or for the Defender.
- He can Interfere with attempts to expel/nullify spies (the Second Bidding War) either against or for the Defender.
- He can Interfere with attempts at Corruption (or raising the level of Corruption) of the Defender (the Third Bidding War) either against or for the Defender.
The Interloper must spend PL to do so. The more PL he spends, the more he can Interfere.
The Interloper can interfere with as many Attackers against one Defender, or as many Attackers and Defenders, as he wishes, so long as he has a spy within the Defender's (or each Defender's) territory and otherwise meets the requirements given above, and he is willing to spend the PL to do so.
Note that all powers are simultaneously Attackers, Defenders, and Interlopers, if they wish to be!
(Heh, what? I need only 5 PL to have 10th level spells! Yeah!)![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
. It's not always lethal for the Epic level characters but it's always debilitating to say the least.).
