(IR) The 5th IR - 3rd OOC Thread (OPEN)

[Bugbear]

Also, regarding the ABCD spell or whatever ("overpowered thing"), I'm actually going against my initial response, and suggesting we don't ban it.

Why?

Because, out of dissatisfaction with the terms of Nyrond's Apocalypse Pact, the Scarlet Brotherhood would like to invite delegates from the following powers to Kro Kerlep to discuss the terms of an alternative agreement, to be known as the Apocalypse Accord:

- The Bakluni Empire
- The Collective Overminds
- The Cult of Ashardalon
- The Empire of Eclavdor
- The Empire of the Wolf God
- The Kabalim
- The Triumvirate Rebellious

These powers have been selected based on a careful assessment of their magical capacity as well as their vulnerability to an attack of this nature. Other powers interested in participating in the formation of this accord are welcome to request invitation, and should structure their argument with regard to these criteria. Once the terms of the Accord have been reached, of course, all nations great and small will be welcome to sign into it.

The goals of the Accord, as it differs from Nyrond's Pact, are as follows:
- First, to make the restrictions of the agreement more general, to protect the powers involved from not only this specific spell, but other means of mass destruction, as well, be they magical, biological, or otherwise.
- Second, to make the process of retribution and retaliation more specific, and to provide a mechanism for ensuring full participation in any retaliatory strike, that such threat of retribution may be a more convincing and effective deterrent.
- Third, to address the issue of proliferation, and establish a methodology by which it can be limited and controlled.
- Finally, to establish a means of amendment, such that unforeseen threats of a massively destructive nature can be unquestionably included in its terms as they arise; otherwise, there is a significant risk of fragmentation between members of the Accord that will ultimately weaken our collective ability to deter any such threat.

The Brotherhood requests to be notified by the invited powers as soon as possible of their intent or refusal to participate in this delegation. Given the prospective urgency of this issue, we wish to have terms finalized by the end of Turn One.

What specifically do you find dissatisfying about the Apocalypse Pact?

Also by what means did you determine your selection of powers for your proposal? I notice that many powers have been excluded from the discussion (including my own which could potentially cast Four AFTS spells at this very moment). This policy of exclusion seems very unfair to me as the AFTS effects us all.

As for the goals of your proposed accord, they seem very vague and would unlikely accomplish more than The terms of the Apocalypse Pact already do.


- First, to make the restrictions of the agreement more general, to protect the powers involved from not only this specific spell, but other means of mass destruction, as well, be they magical, biological, or otherwise.
The matter in question at the moment is AFTS, not contagion, or high Magick, or nuclear weapons. Certainly these could be included under the rules of the Pact if the members so choose (by majority). Contagion may or may not be a threatening issue, as I stated in my post about the effects of remove disease no longer being readily available, the diseases it creates may or may not be contagious. I will await Serpenteyes ruling on the matter. High Magick and Nukes and whatever other nasty things we may think of as the game progresses are not an issue, as they do not exist yet.

- Second, to make the process of retribution and retaliation more specific, and to provide a mechanism for ensuring full participation in any retaliatory strike, that such threat of retribution may be a more convincing and effective deterrent.
How could it be anymore specific? If a enity uses AFTS against a pact member it is considered an attack against all pact members. If a person or nation attacks you are you not likely to respond in some way? The nature of the response of course will depend on one's capabilities at the time. Since it is impossible to determine what any one nations abilities will be at any given time, legislating a response would be impossible.

- Third, to address the issue of proliferation, and establish a methodology by which it can be limited and controlled.
In terms of the Game Rules, proliferation is not an issue. Powers cannot share knowledge of technology or high magic. Since AFTS is not high magic, then every player would have access to it at the beginning of the game. I did not address the issue in the pact because it is an agreement between players not factions.

- Finally, to establish a means of amendment, such that unforeseen threats of a massively destructive nature can be unquestionably included in its terms as they arise; otherwise, there is a significant risk of fragmentation between members of the Accord that will ultimately weaken our collective ability to deter any such threat.

This is addressed in my response to your first goal. As to the matter of Fragmentation between Pact members, I think this may be inevitable once powers start to gain High Magick.

In conclusion, Your offer brings nothing to the table. I suspect it is mearly a means for you gain influence and to manipulate the agreement to your own ends. Nice try though

 

[Bugbear]

(puts someone back in the roster, with his permission)

(quietly) James is back with us.

Welcome back Sir

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

To Dralonxitz and others

Dralonxitz, I need your claims for the roster.

Azmodean, Serpenteye is going to have to adjudicate your partial claim to Ishtarland and the Tarquish Dominion.

Everyone else, if there is additional information you wish put in the roster, just post it and I'll cut and paste it in.

I don't think your map is ugly, James. I think it is beautiful.

-

-

-

It would appear Maudlin will not be joining us. Maudlin looked at the claims, and found no claims that interested him ... I think that is why he did not join in. Now, if someone had an interesting claim for Maudlin, perhaps he'd change his mind ... and perhaps not. It's out of my hands.

I do not yet know if Draco_of_Zeradiath will be joining us. He is still considering the matter.

There is a slight chance John Brown is joining. The matter is still up in the air.

My other attempts at recruitment have not been successful:

Forrester seems uninterested (despite the fact that the humanoids of the Underdark and most of the mountains of Oerth are unclaimed.)
Upper Krust is too busy (Yes, I invited him. He's a great guy, always friendly, and would have been a great player.)
Gruffmug was not interested.
Others have not responded to my e-mails (at least, they haven't responded yet.)

Ah me. I have done my best. All through this thread, I've been trying.

 

[Paxus Asclepius]

The Wolf God will send an emissary to each summit on apocalypses; no sense in failing to take necessary precautions.

Edena: [sblock]The treaty could be worded as follows, to ensure clarity and precision:

The undersigned nations and powers agree that any act of war against one member of this treaty shall be considered an act of war against all members. Further, any such act of war must be met with all available force, such response to continue until any and all aggressors are entirely and permanently unable to contine their aggression against any member.[/sblock]

 

[Uvenelei]

Here's my faction background and info.

Email: thegoodbar@gmail.com
PC: Tempest, epic level human male Paragon Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker/Legendary Dreadnought, CE
Other Characters: First Wife (Kuuma), epic level Succubus Sorceress, CE
Artifacts: none yet

Powers:
-The Tharquish Empire: Mainly humans and humanoids, with larger than average numbers of monstrous humanoids.
-The Warfathers: Ancient resurrected tribal warriors.

The Tharquish Empire. Once a vast nation of seafarers, the Empire was one of the greatest powers in the region. In military power, they were peerless, particularly their renowned fleets. They were among the richest of nations, controlling or influencing the majority of trade up and down the Oceanum Titanicum and the Gulf of Ishtar. Their capital, Tharquin, was (in their own opinion, and in that of several of their neighbors), was a shimmering beacon of culture and learning, the glorious pinnacle of civilization. The citizens of the Empire, mostly human and demihuman, lived in peace, under the wise and benevolent rule of Emperor Algish XXVI. The savage tribes that occupied many areas throughout the Empire were subjected long ago, and now represented objects of pity rather than fear.

That was one month ago. Now, Tharquin burns, the victim of savage rape and pillage. The emperor’s corpse has been torn to pieces by wild dogs and crows, his bloodline erased, and the noble houses scattered. The greatness of the Empire, and quite a few of her subjects, lie broken at the feet of one man, a barbarian chief of chiefs who calls himself the Tempest of Hell.

Soon after the gods abandoned mortals, the stability of the Empire weakened. When the gods became silent, fear spread throughout the people of the nation, while the emperor did his best to hold everyone together. At the same time, however, the barbarian chief Tempest, seeing his chance, unified the tribes of the nearby islands. With a force of unified barbarians, the likes of which hadn’t been seen for centuries, he struck, crippling the infrastructure of the Empire with brutal raids. Along with his army, however, he brought a new hope for the survivors, for with him rode the ancestors of the tribes, ancient protectors here to take the place of the gods. He offered the citizens of the Empire a simple choice: resist, and die, or join the barbarians, and conquer the world. Many joined his forces, in seek of power, glory, or spiritual guidance from the one man whom the resurrected ancestors obeyed.

The forces of Tempest now consist of millions of barbarians and former citizens of the Empire. There is only one law: strength is king. The entirety of the remnants of the Empire belong to Tempest, and to his loyal warriors he gives the spoils of war as he deems worthy. The Imperial Navy is now the largest pirate fleet ever seen in the region. Having conquered the Tharquish Empire, Tempest now mobilizes his forces, preparing for total war against any who oppose him.

The Tempest of Hell: A gargantuan hulk of a man, Tempest was destined for greatness. His body is infused with the spirits of his ancestors, making him capable of ungodly feats of strength and endurance. In combat, his mind dissolves, and he becomes Death incarnate, devastating any creature he encounters. He carries an arsenal of magical armaments, and his whole body is covered with impenetrable armor and stolen jewelry. He is also a very forceful personality, and thousands upon thousands of warriors have sworn to die in his name. Tempest maintains a large harem of wives, all of whom are phenomenally powerful in their own right, for he calls no woman wife who cannot survive for thirty seconds in personal combat with him. Those that survive longer than that are returned to life and granted the honor of bearing his children.

First Wife: The creature who Tempest calls First among his wives, while she appears as a savage warrior, is actually a demoness of great magical power. She bears the honor of being the only one of Tempest’s wives that he hasn’t killed in a duel.


Color desired for Guilty Puppy's awesoem map: Is bright red still available? Otherwise, whatever's free.

 

[Rikandur Azebol]

OOC:
Cheers to You too Serpenteye, and minute of silence in respect of the all victims of tsunami and earthquake.

one minute later

I have another request-question to our DM, since I had recently read ENWorld Feat Database, I would like to give to Iuz Feat "Razor Run". Would You allow it ?

Paxus Asclepius ... since Wolf-God is also combat oriented, You might find this feat flavorous. As any other "combat monger", to be honest.

Guilt Puppy, hide Your event from Iuz, he would recive uninviting him ... personally.

James Heard, finally back !
Is Zagyg still going to put up with these orbital bombardment stations ? Iuz might be interested ...

Uvenelei, isn't Tempest the greatest competitor to Iuz ? I can foresee great struggle incoming ... And I would propose for You, as an artifact, something like sacred place ... where Tempest might "discuss", in his own way, return of his Ancestors with Death.

And as a comment to Guilt Puppy's or any one other is willing to initiate diplomatic countermeansures against many devastating magical powers already in our grasp. Please, for the sake of narrativity of Our IR, create something that would explain somehow how our PC's stumbled upon idea that demand modern knowledge, for example diseases. In medieval it was blamed on demons/devils/ foul air/ god's wrath ... bacteries were discovered around 1900 ... if my memory doesn't delude me. William Ronald is our expert and I hope that he would correct me if I'm terribly mistaken.

To explain Iuz's interest in signing AftS Anti-Pact I presented him with terrible vision of possible future. Where instead of him, someone resembling Vecna were destroying that, Fuoryndy, what Iuz think is his for taking. It couldn't be other way with CE PC who is all and only selfish. Don't You agree ? And I think that even people of Oerth, so dependant on Cure Disease, would know that if they keep away from diseased they would not get disease themselves. Health care is simple in Empire of Iuz ... weak are to die so strong would survive. Diseased are burned alive from afar. End of trouble ... And wizard responsible for spreading it would be guest of Iuz's dungeons for rest of his long and scream filled eternity.

IC:
Dorakaa, fev hours earlier

*In front of shivered old man kneeled huge toadlike demon, his eyes filled with excitiment.*

You recive promotion to captain, seargant Ripp O'Hezrou. And Your duties at the side of Tsian ambassador will be taken by War Maiden that accompanied Your team. We are proud of the great soldier of the Fatherland ! As a reward You will became, temporary, ambassador in the Balkuni Empire. You have Our grace to take what You need in Your mission.

*Hezrou saluted his Tzar and God, bowed deeply and disaapeared. Iuz smirked wickedly and coughed violently. He looked with fright at the blood on his palm with wich he shielded his mouth, and muttered with heavy voice.*

Not now ... not now, I'm too close. Halga ! ...

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

(looks weary)

Uvenelei, I have updated your roster. Have a look.

Sollir, I need a description of Lynn from you. Especially since Uvenelei is your neighbor, his power is evil, and you will have to deal with it.

Azmodean, please note that Uvenelei is your neighbor also. You have claimed part of Ishtarland and part of the Tarquish Dominions, both of which are threatened by Uveneleis' power. (Note, folks, that the rest of Ishtarland and the Tarquish Dominions are still up for grabs.)

Dralonxitz, you have yet to put in a claim. When you do, I'll put them in the roster. Please feel free to be imaginative! That's what everyone is doing: just creating powers, peoples, governments, cultures, and alignments on the spot. We ran out of Official places, so people are creating new places (I would daresay we have developed Oerth to quite a fair degree, and continue to do so. We effectively have our own campaign world now!)

Serpenteye, since you were last here 6 new players have joined.

The new players are:

Azmodean
Dralonxitz
Festy Dog
Kalanyr
Sollir
Uvenelei

James has returned, and instead of reclaiming Polaria has claimed Aquaria.

We still have not heard from Thomas. Everyone else is accounted for, but not Thomas. Nac Mac Feegle stated he would talk to him.

It is still possible Draco_of_Zeradiath and others might join us.

Have a look at the roster and templates of the 6 new players. There are rulings needed on populations, IC, on how much of Ishtarland and Tarquish Azmodean controls, and so on. (I told Uvenelei you'd probably accept his concept. Personally, I think it's a neat one.)

Dralonxitz, are you there?

-

Yes, the nation of Eclavdor (the drow) will sign the ARC Pact (which bans the 9th level spell from the book of Vile Darkness.)
Yes, Eclavdor has a Pact of Non-Aggression with Greater Nyrond.
Yes, Eclavdor is offering such a Pact to the Baklunish Empire (almost certain to be rejected)

Paxus, Eclavdra will be replying to the Wolf God ... and yes, she likes his idea. She likes it very much.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Upper Krust is too busy (Yes, I invited him. He's a great guy, always friendly, and would have been a great player.)

[playful faux-rage]NEVER ATTEMPT TO DISTRACT UPPER KRUST FROM THE IMMORTALS HANDBOOK.[/playful faux-rage] The lives of hundreds of puppies and kittens are at stake! Every day that passes without a publish, Anabstercorian eats a puppy AND a kitten.

 

[James Heard]

James has returned, and instead of reclaiming Polaria has claimed Aquaria.

Actually I'm claiming Aquaria as well as Polaria, as a functional extension of the latter. I'm thinking that Aquaria will more or less be a sea power loosely based on the Balkan-Slav culture as an offshoot of the Aerdrians of the Great Kingdom - who also have a cultural and societal alliance with Polaria due to proximity. I've still got to transfer my notes from longhand. I've been distracted trying to remedy the map's ailments. If my daughter doesn't call me back before long I'm going to assume that my New Year's Eve will be spent quietly at home, so I may get a lot of work done (or I might get stinking drunk and pass out in my backyard).

Good Gaming!

 

[Bugbear]

And as a comment to Guilt Puppy's or any one other is willing to initiate diplomatic countermeasures against many devastating magical powers already in our grasp. Please, for the sake of narrativity of Our IR, create something that would explain somehow how our PC's stumbled upon idea that demand modern knowledge, for example diseases. In medieval it was blamed on demons/devils/ foul air/ god's wrath ... bacteries were discovered around 1900 ... if my memory doesn't delude me. William Ronald is our expert and I hope that he would correct me if I'm terribly mistaken.

Alright, since this was in response to my claim that the Denizens of Oreth were in no great danger of destruction by disease, I will provide evidence.

First let me say that the fantasy world in which D&D is set, though it resembles out medieval period, is very different. This is mainly caused by the existence of magic and gods who participate actively in the lives of their followers. The Medieval period of Europe was one of the darkest in human history, especially when it came to knowledge. The seeking of knowledge, in general was frowned upon by the church and by many of the rulers of Europe. Scholars often had to study in secret, unless they themselves were clergy and any discoveries which challenged what the church said were put down harshly. this is an aspect of medieval society which is not reflected in the Typical D&D setting, which is more akin to the Renaissance era when it comes to searching for knowledge and the acceptance of new Ideas.

Now in the typical D&D world (Greyhawk being the Most Typical) magic works. Alchemy Works. The science of herbalism is far more advanced than it is even now in our world. Now it is primarily through Herbalism that techniques to fight disease will be found. In the real world ancient civilizations used herbs to combat disease, and modern medical scientist are only just beginning to explore the possibilities of herbal medicines. For you reading pleasure I direct you to this page which has some excellent examples of how ancient civilizations used herbs to combat disease.

Now it is true that Medieval Europe, as well as the middle east (which was far more advance both socially and scientifically than Europe at the time) believed that disease was caused by Small demons. It wasn't until the discovery of germs by Robert Kock in the late 1800's that the medical community acknowledged what caused disease. But in effect, bacteria and viruses are small demons which cause disease, they simply are not of a supernatural origin.
Though there is this statement taken from here:

The idea of pathogens and little living parasites causing disease dates back to the 16th century; even though there was a revival in the early 19th century, it was thought that it made medicine too simple, and since there were no proof, many doctors did not like to believe it.

So assuming that the D&D world does not have access to a microscope with which to Identify bacteria, the fantasy herbalist will be trained in identifying disease by the symptoms. And when that fails there is always divination. Once the disease is identified as a known illness, the herbalist will be able to prescribe the appropriate cure. Only in the case of diseases which kill quickly or of are which a magical nature would Remove Disease be needed.

Now the Greatest Herbalists would likely be Druids, who would most likely know the truth about the "Little Demons", that they are living creatures. Remove Disease is also on the Druid spell list I might add, so it is not lost as an option.

Also I will repeat what I said earlier about the Lifestyle of the Typical D&D commoner. It was much better, at least in neutral and good societies. They ate better and lived cleaner. The real world peasant of medieval Europe was told that if they washed regularly they would attract illness.
The typical D&D city has extensive and complex sewer systems which carry away waste and keep it from entering back into the water supply. In medieval Europe filth was thrown out into the streets and left there until rain washed it away. The sewers alone will greatly reduce the chance of an outbreak.
The Typical D&D society targets the right animals which are disease carriers. Rats are not welcome and are known as carriers of disease. Again probably the influence of the druids. In Our medieval Europe cats were killed on sight as they were thought to be servants of the devil. This led to population booms in the rat populations of the cities which led to Black death outbreaks.