Is 3e a different game than 1e/2e?

Is 3e a different game from 1e/2e?

  • Yes

    Votes: 65 52.4%
  • No

    Votes: 59 47.6%

I too converted an ongoing 2e campaign to 3e on the fly. Yes, it works well. However, you can't go the other way. Turning a 3e evil, half-orc, ranger/rogue/sorcerer into a 2e PC wouldn't be very pleasant.

A typical 2e character is a subset of possible 3e characters. So you can go to the larger set without issue. However, trying to push a 3e character back into a 2e mold simply wouldn't work.

And I'm with Oni, 3e is just better.

PS
 

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Same game, just with the mechanics updated/streamlined/made consistent. The flavor is all virtually the same.

D20 Modern -- that's a different game. Different flavor.

If you eliminate D&D archetypes, or classic base machanics (race/class/HP & AC concepts/alignment/Vancian magic/medieval fantasy setting), then IMHO you have something other than D&D. Messing with the exact dice you role, or the way you employ skills doesn't make it a different game.
 

Unlike most folks I guess...I feel it is NOT the same game...yes there are familiar elements and names, but the system has been stripped and rebuilt...

it's like comparing a 68' 428 CJ Mustang to a 98 SVT Mustang (Cobra)..same name..different car...they both will get you from point a to point b. The SVT is more controlled, and smoother, but lacks charm and personality..it's sterile...it feels like any other modern speed ride... the 68 CJ will get ya there just as fast.. the power is raw and explosive, the ride is gritty..but the car drips personality and has a charm that will never be recaptured...

To me alot of the D&D "Feel" is not about terminology..like AC and HP...alot of the "feel" of D&D to me has always been the (clunky at times) mechanics...Thieve's Skill percentages, Backstabs, System Shock, Ability Score minimums,negative AC's, damage vs. Large opponents, etc, etc...3E got rid of or renamed/reworked many things that to ME are integral to what D&D is...

and there are some nomenclature changes that kind of "ruin" it for me..the spells, some of the magic items, etc...

back in the early 80's...if you wanted a better RULES system, you jumped on to RQ, DQ, or a few other systems...but D&D always had a familiarity and a style that no-one else had...3E does NOT have that for me...it's sanitized. Now it's just like in the early 80's..it may have the same name, but it's different..different enough to where it does not seem like D&D to me...

Now that doesn't mean it's a bad game, it's quite improved in many ways, and the system as far as from a rules standpoint is starting to show it's "superiority" to me the more I run it

But it's not the D&D game I grew up with...and that makes me sad on occasion...
 

It's more or less the same, but with the easier way of doing treasure, CR, tacking on levels, the game did turn higher magic for me for some reason...

Rav
 

I definitely have to say 'yes' to this. For me, 3E has a distinctly different feel to 2E (I never played enough 1E to really comment).

Once of the principal differences being that I actually enjoy running 3E: something that was not true of 2E. I ran the latter because all my players knew it, and there was a lot of adventure material available 'ready to run' (which was vital for me, since I was working full time and attending college as well). 3E, on the other hand, I run from choice.

[As an addendum, since it seems to be an issue for previous posters, I'll specify that this is all entirely IMO. It you liked 2E, more power to you. Ditto all the other game systems I dislike, but haven't mentioned here.]
 

I voted Yes, and I think it's a good thing. 20 years of rpg history, along with certain mechanisms borrowed from Champions, GURPS, and numerous other systems have finally made D&D a game worth playing. That combined with its popularity, make it my favorite system currently.
 

Yes and No.

Things that are the same for me (all IMO):
1) The strong class and race, spell and magic item archetypes haven't changed.
2) The assumptions about the D&D "default setting" (full of dungeons, thieves' guilds, adventurers, beholders, planes and the strange moral compass known as alignment) remains more or less unchanged, despite tweaks such as opening up racial class restrictions.
3) The magic level of the game hasn't changed, except in terms of perception of it. Most seem to have run 1E and 2E with a lot of gold and magic items, and by opening up magic item creation, 3E just reflects that.
4) The emphasis on the dungeon as the primary adventuring environment, to the exclusion of improving the state of the art of a good model for wilderness or urban adventuring hasn't changed. ("Getting back to the dungeon" aside, an opportunity to improve the game's culture was missed here.)
5) The emphasis on big, campaign modules having to be megadungeons hasn't changed. The megadungeons becoming dull in play after a while ("too much of a good thing") hasn't changed either.
6) 2E's emphasis on "fluff" has been found wanting (and seemingly scapegoated for TSR's commercial failure), and 1E's emphasis on stats embraced...seemingly for both ideological and commercial reasons. The result of the application of such a simplistic rule of thumb across the board isn't always good, but...
7) ...Dungeon magazine still exists, so it effectively doesn't matter what approach other products take. It's easy to ignore books of exceedingly questionable utility full of god stats when you're too busy mining Dungeon for material which you can actually use in a game.
8) Monster Manual II and the Tome of Horrors have arrived/are arriving to save the day with regards to taking the "feel" of the monster palette in the game back to one more reminiscent of past editions.
9) You still get to roll a lot of d20s, and there's still the opportunity to muck around with the other array of polyhedron dice as well.
10) It's still a game based around sitting around a table with some mates (one of who is behind a piece of screen of cardboard) and playing make believe in what is usually a swords and sorcery fantasy setting.

Things that are different for me (again, all IMO):
1) 3E is more inconvenient to run on the fly than prior editions.
2) 3E's combat is more fun due to the range of options opened up in combat.
3) 3E's push towards miniatures grids and reduction of the level of combat abstraction can reduce combat visualisation on a storytelling level, but enhance it on a tactical level.
4) 3E's core Monster Manual selection delivers a different character to the game, which has an inferior flavour to past editions.
5) 3E character creation is more fun than in past editions because it presents more customisation options, and the opportunity for more powergaming fun (I don't see that as a negative, btw).
6) 3E's prestige classes are no better than 2E's kits in terms of being problem-prone, and restrict when a PC can take them regardless of campaign reality.
7) 3E changes the perception of magic through magic item creation such that magic items hold less mystique.
8) Because 3E is made at such a time whereby the hobby has established norms and ideas of what is progressive and what is "done", there's a different kind of pioneering going on, and the products reflect that.
9) Game balance has changed with 3E, in that it exists this time around. Thieves/rogues have caught up with their counterparts.
10) Without practice, character creation and NPC statting is now so intensively time-consuming as to suggest the use of computer programs to speed up the process.
 

Different system

3e is a different game for one key reason. The system mechanic.

Just as you see things like Cthulu d20, and StarWars d20, you can look at 3e as D&D d20. When you remove the mechanics like THAC0 (EVIL IN CARNATE!!) then you change the game.

I have been playing D&D from both sides of the DM (that shows how old I am) screen since I was five years old. I knew all the rules in the PHB, DMG, and other books and when I first got the 3e books I couldn't help but feel cheated. I resented that they'd changed everything.

Well now I am a PC in a 3e campaign and have to say it is a great system. But the fact remains that it is a new system and therefore it's a new game. It's still D&D, but it is more different from 2e/1e than 2e was from 1e. Just my humble opinion.
 

dcollins said:


Previous editions had an unavoidable percentage change that resurrection would not work, and that the character would therefore be irretrievably dead forever. Based on Constitution, this chance was some 25% at Con 10.

In addition, there was a hard limit on total resurrections allowed over a PC's career -- their starting Con score, unchanged by any later bonuses or improvements. (See AD&D 1st Ed. PHB, p. 12.)

In my 3rd Ed. campaign, I found this sufficiently important to re-institute by virtue of a house rule: www.superdan.net/housrule.html

That was not my experience. My players would have rather had to deal with the small chance (CON is a rather popular stat with my group). Additionally, there is an effective limit as to the number of times a character can be raised - if it happens to often they may not be able to keep up with the group.

My players feel much more afraid of death in 3e, as they would have nearly ANYTHING happen than lose a level.
 

Hey all you who purport and state that 3e is a "better" game, That is an opinion and not an absolute as some state. If you say you're of the opinion, or you think or for you it is a better game, I have no quibble. But a bald statement, "3e is a better game," is a closed-minded statement, IMHO. If I said OAD&D was better than 3e, I'd get plenty of argument. I <i>prefer</i> OAD&D and it is a better system for me. That states that I am open to other opinions and I'm not putting myself above anyone because my system is "better."

Now, I believe everyone after my post was careful to say that their statements relative to quality between the systems were opinion, including Oni. My post was partly in jest, but I also took a stand against absolutist statements about a subjective subject.

3e is not "better." Nor is it "worse." Neither can be established as fact, only opinion. :o

Edit: stupid typos!
 
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