is D&D evil? Thoughts please

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Alright, kreynolds, you win. I admit that I jumped to an incorrect conclusion about what you were saying. Looking back at your posts, I'd still say that it was an easy conclusion to jump to, but I'll admit I'm wrong (and a bit too reactionary) and go away now. :)
 

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castlewalls said:
Have you encountered people/friends/family that actually believe that D&D or ANY other kind of RPG is evil?

I generally choose my friends carefully enough that I don't have this sort of fundamental disagreement with them. However, family can't be chosen, more's the pity. I have encountered some who have intolerant ideas on this and/or any number of subjects. I've dealt with it in two ways. First, I see as little of thsese types of people as I can. Second, when I am forced to spend time with them, I keep the conversation firmly rooted in small talk. "Lovely weather we're having aren't those nice flowers yes I do so love iced tea it was wonderful to see you come again soon."
 

Just like to say:

I am a Christian and a gamer. I believe that religion and gaming are not opposed.

Problem is, y'just can't reason with these Bible-thumping types. They're more stubborn than year old chewing gum, and trust me, they taste twice as bad.

Just don't judge all Christians by the standards of these Bible thumpers, ok? To quote the Bible, "Judge Not, Lest You Be Judged Yourself." And if you ever find yoursefl in an argument with a born-again, just use this saying:

"GOD GAVE US AN IMAGINATION WHY NOT USE IT?"

Thats what I do.

And whoever compared Faiths and Pantheons to the Holy Bible, yes, I find that somewhat rude that you would compare the Holy Scriptures of my religion with a DnD gamebook, which is NO ONE'S holy text, I guarantee you.

And I really hate when people say stuff like "...But not as many people as the ("those evil") CHRISTIANS have killed (persecuted/murdered) over the past 2000 years..."
 

ey now, what is wrong with the occult? No tongue in cheek etc. Seriously. I am an occultist, and my butt really is more evil. Most occultists just want to hug bunnies and sing sappy folk songs and have nothing in common with Marylin Manson.

I honestly don't feel that gaming leads to occultism. My interests in the occult rose out of my JUdaism and seeking to better understand Judaism. This led to understanding the pagan roots of Judaism and the Kabbalah, the form of Jewish Mysticism that permeates western occulture. I had actually given up gaming by the time I took my first degree in Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis and only got back into gaming about a year ago, after several years away. I picked up the odd book sure, but didn't play. Nowhere in that time has my occultism and gaming intertwined. SOrry, can't hurl fireballs at people anymore than anyone else can. Give a good tarot reading though. LOL


Jason
 

To castlewalls:
I actually have a deceased acquaintance who had the exact same shift in attitudes about religion and DnD. He was adamant in his defense of DnD as a harmless pasttime and scorned church-goers in general, not just those who disliked DnD. Then I didn't see him for a couple of years, and the next time we met he was born again and would have nothing to do with "Satan's game."

I never would'a thunk it of him. And I had no idea how to respond to the change in him.

Wish I had some helpful advice for you. The problem is that many of the laws in the Bible that are followed by different sects of Christianity are (I believe) supposed to taken in historical context. I'm sure there are others on this board who disagree with me, and although I do study the Bible and Biblical scholarship as a pasttime, I am by no means an expert. But many of the laws change according to the version of the Bible you read, which of course gives rise to the churches who won't accept anything other than the King James Bible as the true book (never mind that the Bible wasn't originally written in the king's English, or as one book, or with chapter and verse notations, etc.) Unfortunately, many Christians don't see any reason to learn more about how the Bible came to be (heck, many Christians don't even see any reason to actually read the book of their faith). To me, this shows a tremendous lack of respect for the object that is supposed to be the focus of their lives. Some I've met (bless their ignorant little hearts) even think that King James wrote it! (And of course that Jesus was a blue-eyed white guy. :D)

You could try some logic (although this may be stretching it with some). For instance, the First Commandment is in different versions translated as "Thou shalt have no other gods besides me" or "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." To me there is a big difference in the two: the first leaves no room for other gods to even exist, while the second simply states that you shouldn't put any other gods before God. Perhaps you want to sacrifice a lamb to Zeus, but you better do something better for God. ;) DnD seems to be kosher (no pun intended) according to the second version.

When it comes right down to it though, you can't really argue with someone else's beliefs if you don't understand them. That's where the gulf between the two sides of any conflict begins.

In high school, I was a closet agnostic. Actually, I wasn't sure whether I believed in God or not. I remember wondering, even at a young age, what the difference was in believing in the God of the Bible versus believing in the gods of the Greek pantheon. But I generally stayed away from any discussions of religion because I had a live and let live attitude towards it. The people around me thought differently though. After I graduated, I remember being shocked when I found out that some people I went to school with thought I was a Satanist!

I think the greatest thing I got out of going away to college was that I got out from under the wing of my parents' and friends' beliefs (this is something I think everyone should experience, but unfortunately many don't). I encountered people who actively attacked those beliefs, sometimes in an even more hateful way than "bible-thumpers" I grew up with attacked my lack of those beliefs. I really began to explore what I believed, and eventually I realized that each person's relationship with God (or whatever they believe or don't believe in) is something that they must work out for themselves. I now have little use for people who belittle others' beliefs, no matter what they are, but I also know that had I not had time to spread my wings in an environment that promoted free thought, I may have become the same sort of person. It is a thought that gives me chills.

Boy, that was therapeutic!

********

Oh, and one other thing.

Mallus wrote:
oh, on the subject of Orson Scott Card. Great writer. Speaker for the Dead is an amazingly thoughtful and religious book, but his thoughts about witing and evil are useless. I suppose it works for him, but not for me. Just an example: Why is pornography inherently evil? What's counts as porn? Hustler? Ulysses? The works of John Donne {he uses some highly erotic language in his religious poems....}. Any writing that provokes a sexual response? Why not any writing that provokes a violent response? Like Tom Paine's "Common Sense" {literally, in that case}. Like most neat propositions, it just ain't much help...

Amen, brother. One man's trash is another man's treasure. I know a preacher who thinks Schindler's List is a wonderful movie, but that Spielberg ruined it with the foul language, nudity and sex. :rolleyes:

P.S. If you actually read all this crap, go with God and don't take any wooden nickels.
 

The 10 Commandmants, you know, the movie with Charleton Heston, is that evil according to your friend? Now, I'm just going to assume that he thinks Dogma was directed by Satan himself... ask him to watch it anyway :).
 

Is D&D evil? Not from my perspective.

Let us see what happens with most adventuring parties. People play characters with diverse skills, opinions, and beliefs. Often they fight such foes as slavers, evil cultists, and those seeking national, if not world domination. So, most D&D games center on opposing evil.

Are actors, directors, and playwrights evil? Some would think so. However, I have not seen credible evidence -- based on my religious beliefs -- that would justify this opinion.

Do players actually espouse Odin, Zeus, or Mystra? No. Their characters may. How is this different from someone playing a character in a Greek tragedy? Last I checked, I don't think most actors honored Zeus, Apollo or Dionysus?

I would argue that part of the problem for D&D being viewed as evil in some quarters is a matter of perspective. Some people view anything not conducive to supporting their beliefs as an impediment to faith, and therefore evil.

Perhaps more important is the tendency of some individuals to condemn anyone or anything that seems different. As a member of a religious minority, I have seen this first hand. This attitude of condemnation seems to stem from fear and ignorance. People can be afraid of what they do not understand.

I find this attitude amusing in those who seem to ignore the injunction "Judge not lest ye be judged." (I think this is from the New Testament - but I do not know the exact verse. )

The best approach to a charge that D&D is evil is rational discussion. Try to go to http://www.theescapist.com for some ammunition. The second best approach is to ignore people whom you disagree with. Insulting people and taking an attitude of superiority generally causes people who have not made up their minds to view you poorly.
 

Bob Aberton said:
And whoever compared Faiths and Pantheons to the Holy Bible, yes, I find that somewhat rude that you would compare the Holy Scriptures of my religion with a DnD gamebook, which is NO ONE'S holy text, I guarantee you.

If you were offended, you took it out of context. I explained my reasonings behind that, and I needed to do so as I was unclear as to why I said that. I didn't intend to trivialize any holy text. I was merely expressing my opinion that I don't care to hear quotes from a holy text, as I would much rather prefer to hear your own opinion. If I wanted someone to simply repeat what is in a book, I could just as easily use the text-to-speech functionallity of Office XP.

If you read my explanation posted earlier and are still offended, well, sorry you got upset.
 
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Re: Re: Re: is D&D evil? Thoughts please

kreynolds said:

This is but one of the reasons why I don't even bother pursuing such arguments.

You don't eh? This is the second post you've made in this thred, both of which are extremely insulting to anyone who might be religious. Comparing the Bible to a game book is downright crass, and I'm not even a christian.

And yall wonder why religion is a barred topic here.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: is D&D evil? Thoughts please

Canonfire! said:
You don't eh? This is the second post you've made in this thred, both of which are extremely insulting to anyone who might be religious. Comparing the Bible to a game book is downright crass, and I'm not even a christian.

Actually, I've made 11 posts in this thread, and this makes it 12. But you didn't even bother to read the rest. You just stopped right in the middle of the thread and didn't even continue, which is why I won't even bother explaining myself to you. If you simply aren't capable of actually giving someone the respect of reading all of their posts before you fly off the handle without understanding what it was they were saying, why should I waste my time with you? Answer: I shouldn't.
 

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