Dude, it's a game about murdering people in their homes and robbing them dry. Bullying and threatening are right at home in D&D.
It is also a game about stopping evil cults from destroying the world
And rebuilding civilization after an apocalypse
And going out to make your fortune by discovering a new plant in the mountains
And stopping mad scientists from unleashing plagues.
DnD is more than murderhoboism for gold. Has been for years.
I'll play. Here's three (fun)examples: two are real life examples and one is an in-game example.
In game:
We are leaving town when we are accosted by some cloaked figures.
NPC: "Hey, I see you guys are leaving town. You know, our boss' office was robbed last night. You know anything about that?"
Me: "No, sorry"
NPC(acting tough): Well, then, maybe you can just let me have a look in your bag, just in case.
Me: "Get lost." (Rated G version of what I said)
DM: Make an intimidation check. If you succeed, they back down and you can leave town unharassed.
Real life: (on the phone)
"Yeah, Tom, I'd love to play D&D for a third straight night in a row. Let me just tell my wife....
Dearest wife, I'm going to play D&D tonight, for the third straight night, hope you don't mind!..."
Wife: Delivers a Look that could wither a tree
"Hey, Tom, maybe playing D&D tonight isn't such a good idea."
Real Life:
3 year old to the 4 year old.
"Give me the ball"
4 year Old" "NO!"
3 Year old, " I'm going to tell on you!"
4 year Old - despite having done nothing wrong - "Fine, take it! I hate you!" (throws ball at 3 year old's face)
No threats of violence. All intimidation checks. Most of the people involved aren't Evil. The second example didn't even require any words.
For the record, the threat of the bouncers is having to leave the bar, where you are presumably having fun. It's not the threat of getting a beating. "If you touch the waitress again, I'm going to have to ask you to leave."
In any case, I'm not trying to convince you. If I were to play a game and you were the DM, I wouldn't bother taking Intimidate as a proficiency. We run different games.
You'll play? Funny that I said "no in-game examples " and you give me two IRL examples.
Glad to know that when my character is someone's wife, my proficiency in Intimidation is going to help me keep my husband and home though. I was always worried about that.
Going to the only in game example you gave.... was that even necessary?
I mean, you told them to leave, and rolled intimidation. With "no threat of violence" I'm wondering what was so intimidating about telling someone to leave. Maybe it was, I don't know, implied that if he kept bothering you there might be violence?
I mean, I'm trying to think of this from any angle I can, but I keep coming back to the question "what if I don't leave" and the only response I can come up with is that there would have been violence. So, what non-violent thing were you intimidating them that you would do if they kept bothering you?
If intimidate is always evil, then Batman is pretty much the epitome of evil. Personally I don't think it is, it depends on intent, how you use it, and on whom.
You know that he is called the "Dark Knight" because using fear and intimidation is not super-heroic, right?
Like, there is a reason Superman usually doesn't stare at people with flaming eyes and tell them that they can talk, or lose a leg, their choice.
And, yet again yet again yet again.
Batman does not intimidate Bane does he? the Joker? Darkseid?
No, Batman intimidates goon number 3. Or maybe Penguin, who isn't a fighter.
So, Batman intimidates people weaker than him. Like I said, repeatedly.
Ok here is one I might very try well against a Lich very shortly in a game I am playing with a way overmatched 4th level party and a Lich .We plan to kill her, not intimidate her but if we fail to kill her our fallback is to intimidate her into letting us live.
We currently have a Lich traveling with our 4th level party (4PCs, 3 NPCs and a shield guardian). We know the location of an artifact the Lich is desperate to find. It is very important to her that she finds said artifact and she has no other leads. For some reason she hasn't (can't?) used detect thoughts or something like that on us (I have no idea why). The party is going to ambush her shortly, we have come up with a plan that has a chance of working. It involves grappling by the shield guardian and silence and beating her to death with missile weapons spells and reach attacks, while she is immobilized inside the silence and can not cast her spells. I would give us a 50-50 chance of suceeding. If we fail though and she breaks out of the silence she could easily kill us. If she gets out of the silence, the minute she is free we know we can't win and have every intention of going from fighting to intimidating her at that point if it happens: "If you kill us you will never find the artifact!"
THAT IS INTIMIDATION. I hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does there was no set up necessary. Is it possible persuasion could work here too (plead for pour lives)? Sure but you talking about a very pissed off Lich at that point and I think it would be more difficult. It is also possible intimidation fails and she wipes us out. It is even possible the DM does not let us roll and she wipes us out.
Yeah, as a DM, I wouldn't let that one fly.
She knows that she needs you alive, but that doesn't mean that she isn't going to make sure you can't try and kill her again.
There wouldn't be a roll in my mind, she would respond "Oh I won't kill you, but you will wish I had." Drop the party to zero, and then do something horrible to them.
I mean, you aren't telling her anything she doesn't already know, she knows she needs you alive.
I do agree that that is leverage, but I definitely see it as more persuasion than threats.
