D&D 5E Is Intimidate the worse skill in the game?

[Minigiant]

@Minigiant
Actually in the rules glossary you can see that duplicates are useful, as you can't use the same approach again. So having 5 skill to use with the influcence action allows for 5 tries.

In 2014, you could only roll CHA once. No retries.

That was the point of Skill challenges. So everyone at the table rolls in social and exploration challenges.

Fighter rolls Intimidate: Success
Rogue rolls Deception: Failure
Bard rolls Persuasion: Success
Wizard rolls History: Buff
Cleric rolls Buffed Persuasion: Success

 

[Maxperson]

View attachment 389928
this is from the post you provided. i uh...i don't know what to tell you.

Then there are two different charts. This is page 42 of the 4e PHB. Note the 7th-9th that gets used for the 8th level example. The DC is 14.

 

[Maxperson]

4e DCs don't scale with level.

Page 42 says you are wrong. The example that I quoted clearly uses level to scale the DCs.

 

[Maxperson]

That's true in theory, but not in practice. Instead of using spells, I'll illustrate using the Echo Knight. The EK has an ability that lets them create a copy. They can move the copy. They can also swap position with the copy.

All these abilities are actionable and entirely free from GM-fiat with the exception of the abilities being unclear on whether or not the echo can fly. Nevertheless an EK player can be certain that his ability will work, because there is no practical margin for the GM to say that it won't. There is no opening in the rules for the GM to cockblock the EK by saying that his ability does not actually work.

That's not actually true. The DMG says over and over and over that the rules serve the DM, not the other way around and that the DM can change the rules. There is an opening in the rules for the DM to say that it won't work. That said, if the DM does so without a good in fiction reason for it not to work, it's an abuse of power and the players should find a new DM.

As an example, suppose you are fighting an unknown creature created by the DM that has the ability to stop magical spells and abilities from working as a reaction. You attempt to use your bonus action to magically teleport and swap places, but the creature uses its reaction to stop it from working.

 

[Maxperson]

It was.

That is the house rule that went around at ENworld and certainly other places. Remove 1/2 level bonus.

And 5e did exactly that.

No half level bonus.

Proficiency bonus just raises from +2 to +4.

Expertise doubles it.

So over 20 levels you gain +0/+4/+8 over your first level bonus (0/2/4).

And this is +6 or +12 over untrained bonuses. Which is exactly what you get if you remove 1/2 level bonus as you have shown yourself.

Proficiency goes from +2 to +6.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Proficiency goes from +2 to +6.

Yeah. What I said. You start at +2 and gain another +4 over the next 16 levels...

Oh. I see. Seems I mistyped at one point. Thx. Corrected.

 

[Maxperson]

That's still less than +5.

The issue is +2 in a world were you roll a d20 isn't much.
You aren't good.
I have to roll a 14. You a 12. You aren't much better than me.

This is circumstantial. Let's take lockpicking with you and a rogue at 1st level. You have a 16 dex and are untrained. Your bonus is +3. The rogue has a 16 dex, is trained, and has expertise. His bonus is +7. You have a max of 23. He has a max of 27. You both want to open the DC 25 lock on the door over there. You can try until you pass out from exhaustion and you will never succeed. He only has to try until he rolls an 18 or higher. He will probably pop it open in less than a minute or two.

How much better in 5e depends on if it's a single roll or if you have many retries. If it's a single roll, the odds are that both of you will fail against that lock. With many retries he outdoes you every time.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That was the point of Skill challenges. So everyone at the table rolls in social and exploration challenges.

Yes, and it feels incredibly contrived. It's fine to have characters specialise in skills. Everyone can contribute to discussing what approach to take, who rolls the dice is meaningless. After all, it's just a random number generator.

I prefer this approach:

Players describe what they are doing, e.g. "we try and talk our way past the palace guards". They can add an approach: "We tell them they are needed at the front gate to hold off a rebel attack". The DM says what skill is required and the players say which character is doing it. They roll the dice and the DM compares it to the difficulty of the task (judgment required, but usually easy/medium/hard/very hard covers it). The DM narrates the outcome.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's isn't. But that's how D&D fans run it due to 3e's influence

Most of my players have never played 3rd edition (because they where in nappies when it was current).

 

[Hriston]

It's a fine skill for a character who succeeds in social interactions by making threats. I really don't see how it can be considered worse than other skills.