D&D 5E Is It Impossible To Benefit From 'One With Shadows'?

[Sword of Spirit]

Actually it does. If you are not seen clearly enough you can hide. If noone is atound to see you you may attemt a hide check. You basically have cover from everyone and cand point to that rule. Cover is a relative thing. A long distance between you and the next person in heavy rain or dim light should suffice to hide too.
I have played in LARP and you won't believe me how easy it is to be unnoticed in dim light if you wear the right vestments. dark brown and green and datk gray will easily protect you from being seen even if you are directly looked at from some feet away.
So you will never have technical rules that may encompass all possibilities to hide in reality.
The skulker feat in my game will just allow you to quasi slip out of sight when the enemy knows you are there. As does the elf ability in heavy rain or light underbrush.

I'm strongly considering the ruling, and I think you make a good argument, but I don't think it is 100% apparent from the rules. So I'm discussing from the perspective that this isn't how it works. If it does, it gives me the utility I want from it.

The main objection that I can see is that the rules seem to me to assume that the act of making your check assumes both an active attempt to be quiet and an active attempt to take advantage of your visual obscurement. If no one can possibly detect your presence just because no one is there it seems you are skipping half of the situation and just trying to be quiet. Granted, if you are invisible first (through another ability) and hide, it is mostly being quiet, though you are probably also trying to avoid displacing objects and such that might give away visual cues to your presence. Of course, counter-argument is that you are still able to try to address those visual cues before you become invisible, in anticipation of the fact that you will become invisible as the final step of cementing your hiding attempt.

Not trying to be argumentative, but several posters have found many ways to use this power, suggesting it isn't useless just because it can't be used to hide.

...

Again you presume the power is there to help you with hiding.

I think the power is there to help you become invisible.

Y'all speak as if invisibility in itself is worthless; as if it's just something you do to hide easier...?

Invisibility is useful, but it is of rather limited use because of how the detection rules work. As others have said, if you are invisibly lurking in a room, and someone comes into it with their Passive Wisdom (Perception) "up" (I tend to require them to either be actively staying alert, or be very close to the perception target for that to apply, but some DMs probably keep it on all the time), they are automatically going to know you are there. Sure there is some benefit, but is that really the benefit that the invocation implies you are getting? It sure seems to me like it is supposed to allow you to be undetected (which in most important situations in 5e requires hiding) not just have an edge against attackers.

The question is why do you want to be hidden? What benefit do you get over and above not being visible especially when you can't move, which is the main strength of being hidden.

For me, the main strength of being hidden outside of combat, is that you can be lurking around with no one aware of your presence.

As an example, I am playing an armoured dwarf warlock with 9 Dex and no stealth training. There is no realistic chance he can become hidden at all during combat. The monsters will always know where he is. However this invocation should he choose to take it allows him to become invisible, making him difficult to target, hard to hit and also allowing single attack with advantage should he choose to. Will I take the invocation? I'm not sure yet but its certainly an interesting defensive option

If your dwarf is invisible with that invocation, then he can't do anything but stand there and be harder to hit. Is that really what he should be doing in the middle of combat?

If that is all the invocation allows, then it's just a minor combat option--give up your action and move (a pretty extreme sacrifice) for opponents to have a harder time hitting you and not be able to use targeted spells (or similar effects on you).

When I read this invocation, before taking into account the very limitation we are talking about in this thread, the image that comes to my mind is a guy moving to the side of a street into dim light and getting a chance to become hidden, and then just remaining there with his presence completely unknown as others move right past him. I'm sure that isn't a minority expectation of the feature.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Stealth needs a change. At my table, you make the check as part of the action wherein you gain the conditions to hide. Ie, when you become invisible, when you duck around the corner, etc.

rogues can use a bonus action to do any mundane thing that makes it so they can hide, even if it would normally require movement or an Action.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Also being in dim light or darkness enables you to take the action to become invisible, without needing to remain in it thereafter to have the invisibility persist. Conceptually speaking, the title, while bearing no mechanical weight, seem to imply to me that you have to remain in dim light or darkness in order to remain One With Shadows,but not in effect.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

If the dim light or darkness moves away from you, you can stay invisible, but you can't get out of it yourself (unless there is a way of doing so that doesn't require movement, or an action (including a bonus action or reaction).

 

[CapnZapp]

Viewed more like a "meld into trees or stone" ability,it's fine, I think.

It's clearly not meant for sneaking and hiding.

 

[Arial Black]

The problem I'm having is this: I'm being chased through a castle, I'm a little ahead of my pursuers so I duck into a dimly lit but empty room unobserved. I use my action to use One With Shadows to become invisible, and then neither move nor take any action.

Moments later, my pursuers run past, looking in all the rooms as they go. When they look into my room, what will they see?

Conceptually, since I'm invisible my expectation is that they cannot see me, and since they're running past and haven't sniffed the air or checked for heat signatures or whatever, they just look.

But the rules have it that they instantly know I'm there, and what square I'm in, because I'm not 'hidden'! The fact that they have disadvantage to hit me is not what I was hoping for! I was hoping that being invisible meant that they don't see me therefore they don't realise that I'm in the room at all!

 

[Plaguescarred]

Viewed more like a "meld into trees or stone" ability,it's fine, I think.

It's clearly not meant for sneaking and hiding.

I agree since you can't move or take an action to hide it's clearly not meant for sneaking or hiding indeed. It appears to simply be a defensive effect making you not seen and thus granting disadvantages to attackers and not being targeteable by effects that works on creature you can see.

 

[CapnZapp]

The problem I'm having is this: I'm being chased through a castle, I'm a little ahead of my pursuers so I duck into a dimly lit but empty room unobserved. I use my action to use One With Shadows to become invisible, and then neither move nor take any action.

Moments later, my pursuers run past, looking in all the rooms as they go. When they look into my room, what will they see?

Conceptually, since I'm invisible my expectation is that they cannot see me, and since they're running past and haven't sniffed the air or checked for heat signatures or whatever, they just look.

But the rules have it that they instantly know I'm there, and what square I'm in, because I'm not 'hidden'! The fact that they have disadvantage to hit me is not what I was hoping for! I was hoping that being invisible meant that they don't see me therefore they don't realise that I'm in the room at all!

Since invisibility in itself is separated from being able to stand still and be quiet, you would be better off by finding an ability to hide as an action.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The problem I'm having is this: I'm being chased through a castle, I'm a little ahead of my pursuers so I duck into a dimly lit but empty room unobserved. I use my action to use One With Shadows to become invisible, and then neither move nor take any action.

Moments later, my pursuers run past, looking in all the rooms as they go. When they look into my room, what will they see?

Conceptually, since I'm invisible my expectation is that they cannot see me, and since they're running past and haven't sniffed the air or checked for heat signatures or whatever, they just look.

But the rules have it that they instantly know I'm there, and what square I'm in, because I'm not 'hidden'! The fact that they have disadvantage to hit me is not what I was hoping for! I was hoping that being invisible meant that they don't see me therefore they don't realise that I'm in the room at all!

Why would hey automatically be aware of you? Are they automatically aware of things on the other side of an obstruction?

The stealth rules are a bit borked in general, but this is a clear case of not needing any rolls.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Why would hey automatically be aware of you? Are they automatically aware of things on the other side of an obstruction?

The stealth rules are a bit borked in general, but this is a clear case of not needing any rolls.

If they did stop and duck their head in while pursuing you, the stealth rules would them find you automatically. It's absurd. I'd like to know the intent of the rules here.