Is it time for 5E?

[ProfessorCirno]

Not a doomsday prediction. Just a statement of fact. No one has ever demonstrated that 4E has indeed been a complete commercial success. Essentials kind of hints that it wasn't as big of a success as they hoped or needed.

Again, I've heard these "4e isn't a success!" claims for more then two years now. Accept that it fairly obviously didn't fail and move on with your life. It's getting tiresome.

If 4e hasn't been a success for more then two years, I think we would've seen some more obvious signs about it.

 

[BryonD]

Again, I've heard these "4e isn't a success!" claims for more then two years now. Accept that it fairly obviously didn't fail and move on with your life. It's getting tiresome.

If 4e hasn't been a success for more then two years, I think we would've seen some more obvious signs about it.

Well, I'm not so far out on the extreme, I don't claim "fail".

But it certainly isn't gangbusters either. And, afaiac, I've seen plenty of "signs" of that.

And, to split hairs, the mixed success it has been may very well be a failure compared to the business expectations set for it. We will never know.

The refusal by some to accept that it isn't a total failure may be tiresome. But, the constant claim of "*I* personally like it, therefore it is a good as can be and any claims of split markets and lack of living up to legacy are baseless" is amusing.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

The refusal by some to accept that it isn't a total failure may be tiresome. But, the constant claim of "*I* personally like it, therefore it is a good as can be and any claims of split markets and lack of living up to legacy are baseless" is amusing.

No different are the claims of "I personally dislike it, therefore it is as bad as can be and any claims that it's any sort of success or even calling it D&D are baseless."

Well there is one difference - the first person is characterized by enjoying a game and hobby, the second person is characterized by hating and refusing to accept the enjoyment of others.

Come to think of it, that's a pretty large difference.

 

[Eridanis]

General Note:

Things are starting to get a little heated - please take a moment to think before you post. This thread has been OK so far; don't be the one to send it to the Anvil of the Banhammer.

 

[DM Howard]

I'll set this down coming from a group that started with the end of second edition (The black starter box with the red dragon on it.).

My friend and I loved playing 2nd edition and we played it by ourselves until 3rd edition came out. We made the switch and we didn't find anything to be overly displeased about and we continued on playing all the way until 4E was released and then we made the switch to that. We didn't feel like we HAD to move to 4E but since it was the new edition we thought we should go for it. so we get the books and we like it for a time and all is well.

Eventually we all are sitting around and voice this disappointment over 4E. Not a "I hate 4E RAWR!!!1!" kind of disappointment, but just the feel that something has been lost during the transition.

We've been playing a 4E campaign and we enjoy it well enough, but we also play Dark Heresy, Traveler and Pathfinder as well.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that (for my group) 4E, Dungeons and Dragons in its current state is not the be all and end all of RPGs for my group like it used to be.

Do I think a new edition, a 5E is needed? Yes, but I don't think 4E is bad, I just think the system doesn't cater to as many different play-styles and groups as older editions have. We love 4E, but it isn't all we play anymore and I'm not sure why exactly. I think if there are going to announce a 5E it would be in a year or so not much sooner as they still need to see the effects of 4E.

Sorry for the wandering rant.

 

[Herschel]

It's called "maturing" as gamers. One system doesn't scratch every gaming itch if you're really in to gaming. The more games you see, the more you see there are things you like in a lot of them.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

So how would they even market 5E, especially after Essentials? I guess they could go with "You guyz R tards" or possibly "OOPS we did it again!"

As long as they don't use the word "cool" fifty million times in the pre-release material. Honestly, I was prejudiced against 4e from the moment I read the "Wizards Presents" books. According to those two books, it seemed like every decision they made regarding the direction of 4e was made because "it was cool."

What a long, long way from Gary Gygax's magnificent, prose-rich DMG.

Yeah, I know, I'm just being petty.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

5E?

Dude. We just got 4.5 (Essentials in disguise), maybe in a nother 2-3 years.

 

[Lanefan]

Anvil of the Banhammer.

Didn't they tell you? That's going to be a magic item in 5e: hit it with any hammer and it produces Silence 10' radius around it, duration 5 minutes...hit it with The Banhammer and the Silence effect is permanent.



Lan-"it'll negate Bardic effects, too"-efan

 

[Mercurius]

Count me among the folks that says 2-3 years, maybe an announcement at GenCon 2012 with a release in 2013, or maybe a year later. But I see 5E coming out in 2013 at the earliest - that's five years and doesn't sound quite as sheepish as four.

Lots of interesting thoughts in this thread. I do think that 5E will better integrate technology, but I don't think that paper books will be POD only. Maybe 6E or 7E, but by then there will be POD kiosks all over the place, maybe in some homes.

4E was a success in that it sold some books for WotC, but it was not a success in that it fractured the fan-base like no other edition before and probably was not as big a success as WotC had hoped, especially with the rise of Pathfinder. WotC hoped that 4E would come out and build up steam, but instead it peaked early on and then dropped, with a slight bump up with Essentials. We'll see if that holds or not.

Of concern, or at least interest, is the undeniable fact of the ever-changing 2011 4E lineup. It may be nothing, or it may be that WotC is in a state moderate crisis and trying to figure out what to do next. I wouldn't even be surprised if we get a year or two of minimalist publications while they develop 5E, in the meantime focusing on DDI and non-TTRPG D&D products like the boardgames and a MMORG.

But there will be a 5E, although it may be more akin to Essentials Revised, or E2. And 5E will be a golden opportunity to re-unite the fan-base. How? There are many ways, but I think one would be to re-integrate some of the things that have been lost - the emphasis on free-form gaming, taking away the (near) necessity of using miniatures, shortening combat, bringing the magic back to magical items, taking Essentials another step and further diversifying classes, and--for the love of every deity in any splat book every printed (regardless of edition)--making the game modular so that folks can play different versions of the same game/edition and still be "official." In other words, a Basic/Advanced format.

One thing that crossed my mind is maybe the Neverwinter Campaign Guide is going to be a transition product, a "Classic Realms" book that both pushes the Realms back pre-apocalypse, and segways the game into the next edition, sort of like the old Greyhawk Adventures did with 1E to 2E (Didn't it say that it was compatible with both on the cover?).

I also wouldn't be surprised if we see a 4E Revised before 5E. In other words, errata-ed, re-formatted, and revised versions of the core three, fully compatible with Essentials. Maybe that's why Sword & Spell is on hold.

In the end, WTFKs?