Is it WotC’s responsibility to bring people to the hobby?

[Leviatham]

It's akin to gaming though from that standpoint. Sections in stores stock all sorts of brands along side the big ones. I like root beer, but Barq's is really terrible. But next to all the Coke products I also find Sprecher and Point, two really good ones from small, actual breweries. But without Coke & Pepsi products the stores won't have a prominant beverage section.

We are not really talking about stores, though. We're talking about one company with one IP.

If we were talking about FLGS I'd agree with you there.

 

[Li Shenron]

And then we complain that the hobby is shrinking.

...

What are you going to do about it?

I am going to be frank, even tho it means I am also going to be bitter and depressive, and potentially even odious.

I don't care if the hobby is shrinking (but I don't believe it is, or at least not dramatically).

All I care is if my gaming hobby is shrinking, but I can assure it that it has in fact shrunk to zero (posting on ENW doesn't count), but that's not because of WotC, D&D or the gaming community, that was just because many of us who played together reached the life stage of mating and multiplication, and we just didn't have nearly the same amount of time and energy to regularly play anything.

Now after a few years of retirement, children are getting more manageable and we're once again thinking of gaming, but my intention is the same as it has always been: to play with some of the friends I played before + adding more from my entourage of friends (old and new). I've always preferred converting my friends to players rather than converting players to friends. But I don't expect them to become geeks of RPG and start collecting books, I'm just fine that they play with us, and actually I prefer them to remain casual players since this means that as a DM I will have less problems (e.g. less rules lawyers and powergamers).

 

[Leviatham]

Luckily for me... I don't.

Unlikely for us, you're the minority.

No it's not.

I disagree there. For me to have an attitude of "I don't really care what the hobby does, just want I need at the time" is bad for the hobby.

We can probably argue that point until the cows come home and not be able to convince each other of the opposite, though.

Maybe there's some confusion here about what exactly a "hobby" means. A hobby is something that I do for fun. I enjoy it. Once it becomes sufficient work that I'm not enjoying it, it ceases to become my hobby and I quit doing it at all.

I am not sure what you have in mind when I say "promote the game", but it doesn't have to be that.

As you've pointed out, finding new players is a way of promoting the game.

Admittedly my involvement with the hobby and my efforts to promote it are well above the average, but is talking with your colleagues and friends (assuming you have friends outside gaming circles. Many people don't. And I mean "you" as a generic you, not you personally) to make the game known to them that hard or time consuming?

Very few people enjoy someone telling them that they need to be ambassadors to the hobby. By implying that, I believe that you're accelerating the demise of the hobby. Well, not really--because folks would just ignore you and do what they do anyway. But if they took that sentiment seriously, most of them would find a more laid-back hobby that they could enjoy more.

Well, when I hear someone telling me "I'm leaving the hobby because you're telling me I should promote it" I will believe that.

Until then, I will believe that a pretty exaggerated response to the thread.

 

[El Mahdi]

There is a difference between challenging and dismissing.

What he posted wasn't dismissive. He was challenging the validity and basis of the process you used to come to your conclusions.

You've been challenging my opinions all the way and I haven't had an issue.

Cool.

However if someone, who's not really participated with any noticeable reasoning just turns to me and says "you don't know what you're talking about" (which what his statement amounts to), I think I have all the right to challenge that too.

That's not what his statement amounted to unless one is trying to read into or divine his intention. And accusations of being cheap and dismissive aren't an example of "challenging", they're just being rude, defensive, and derogatory. Being rude is something that's considered quite uncool just about anywhere, and quite specifically here at ENWorld.

 

[Leviatham]

I am going to be frank, even tho it means I am also going to be bitter and depressive, and potentially even odious.

Dude, relax. You sound far from any of that!

I don't care if the hobby is shrinking (but I don't believe it is, or at least not dramatically).

All I care is if my gaming hobby is shrinking, but I can assure it that it has in fact shrunk to zero (posting on ENW doesn't count), but that's not because of WotC, D&D or the gaming community, that was just because many of us who played together reached the life stage of mating and multiplication, and we just didn't have nearly the same amount of time and energy to regularly play anything.

That has happened to most of my friends too. Heck, I don't think I know anyone my age who has as much time to play today, as he/she had 15 years ago. Life does get in the say much too often.

Now after a few years of retirement, children are getting more manageable and we're once again thinking of gaming, but my intention is the same as it has always been: to play with some of the friends I played before + adding more from my entourage of friends (old and new). I've always preferred converting my friends to players rather than converting players to friends. But I don't expect them to become geeks of RPG and start collecting books, I'm just fine that they play with us, and actually I prefer them to remain casual players since this means that as a DM I will have less problems (e.g. less rules lawyers and powergamers).

OK, what you're doing, converting friends into gamers, is indeed promoting the game. Specially because they might have children and might decide to start playing with them.

Or maybe they'll talk to other people about it and spark another flame somewhere else.

Or maybe your kids will enjoy it so much that they'll want to have their friends around to play...

Anything and everything counts. I don't mean for people to give up on anything and start a blog, or start writing adventures, or running groups when they have no time.

It sounds like people in this forum are taking to heart and assuming I am suggesting a massive effort and I'm not. The likelihood is that if you're in a forum like this, you're already doing your bit.

Would a bit more help? Sure! But I'm not asking for anything out of the ordinary here.

 

[Leviatham]

What he posted wasn't dismissive. He was challenging the validity and basis of the process you used to come to your conclusions.

To be told "your opinion about this subject seems to lack even basic research." sounds pretty dismissive to me.

That's not what his statement amounted to unless one is trying to read into or divine his intention. And accusations of being cheap and dismissive aren't an example of "challenging", they're just being rude, defensive, and derogatory. Being rude is something that's considered quite uncool just about anywhere, and quite specifically here at ENWorld.

It is what amounted to me, and I also found it to be rude and derogatory.

I have responded quite politely to any and every post I have written in this thread and this has been the only one that's made me feel I had to be defensive, and I think I am entitled to defend myself if I feel that way.

If he had a problem with my response (he obviously did) he could have told me about it and discuss it rather than just leave the conversation.

I have no problems apologising if someone tells me I have offend them.

 

[Leviatham]

Just in case anyone is interested in hearing the original conversation I had that sparked my thoughts on this, the link to the podcast is:

Is it WotC’s responsibility to bring people to the hobby? »

I have also added it to the body of the original post, but just in case that's not conspicuous enough and people miss it, here it is too.

 

[Ahnehnois]

People have responsibilities. WotC is not a person.

So I think "responsible for bringing people to the hobby" is something of an overstep.

Should WotC be trying to grow the hobby? Of course. Are they doing a good job at it? No. Are people mad at them because of it (and for many other reasons)? Yes. Do those people have a right to be? Yes.

But ultimately, people are responsible for things. In this case, any number of people may take it upon themselves to grow the hobby.

 

[Elf Witch]

U


I am not sure what you have in mind when I say "promote the game", but it doesn't have to be that.

As you've pointed out, finding new players is a way of promoting the game.

Admittedly my involvement with the hobby and my efforts to promote it are well above the average, but is talking with your colleagues and friends (assuming you have friends outside gaming circles. Many people don't. And I mean "you" as a generic you, not you personally) to make the game known to them that hard or time consuming?

Now you are getting into the realm of driving your non playing friends and co workers nuts.

It is one thing to let it be known you game. I share funny things on my Facebook page as well as news. I don't keep it a secret. I often work on my campaign in public places like the book store and I have answered questions when people ask about it.

But nothing is more obnoxious then trying to convince them to play. Think about it do you want to hear endless stories about my Barbie collecting? Nothing is more a turn off then someone being in your face.

Back in the old days I promoted gaming at conventions not gaming conventions but literary, media, comic and even Mediawest the big Fanzine con. I don't do this anymore because my health is not up to traveling and I don't have the finances to attend many cons.

 

[Guest 85555]

I think encouraging people outside the hobby to give it a try is perfectly fine. So long as you are not pressuring people to play who have no real interest. But at some point we were all non-gamers and had to be introduced to the hobby somehow.